Wiimote Digital Scouting System

[gwytheyrn]

Originally Posted by zim2411

Don't the wiimotes fit under this?

http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...pdate%2012.pdf

This is a fairly good point. Depending on who's opinion you go by, since wi-fi rules aren't really enforced at all, wiimotes could possibly be illegal as they use bluetooth (2.4ghz). Really, it's a decision if bluetooth falls under "Wi-Fi use in the 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands is prohibited."

Otherwise, that's pretty sweet. I note that it uses sql, but jw what the actual languaged used was.

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by gwytheyrn

This is a fairly good point. Depending on who's opinion you go by, since wi-fi rules aren't really enforced at all, wiimotes could possibly be illegal as they use bluetooth (2.4ghz). Really, it's a decision if bluetooth falls under "Wi-Fi use in the 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands is prohibited."

Update 12 says:

• Robots may be operated via wireless control only on the competition or practice fields.
• Two-way radios or other form of wireless communications are not allowed (with the exception of the previous bullet).

Update 13 adds to this:

Wireless communication clarification:
Regarding the wireless communication prohibition in Team Update 12, we’d like to clarify that general cell phone use is permitted. However, Wi-Fi use in the 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands is prohibited.

I read that as this: "Two way radios or other forms of wireless communications are not allowed, except for the robot wireless on the competition field and general cell phone use." It is clear they do not want interference in the 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands, so (IMHO) use of Bluetooth in this manner is not allowed. I'd recommend to anyone planning to use this system that they submit a Q&A question about it to get confirmation (unless one has already been submitted and I missed it).

[Brandon Martus]

The updates Dave posted are what made 148 use a wired network in the stands in Dallas for our scouting system.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

I read that as this: "Two way radios or other forms of wireless communications are not allowed, except for the robot wireless on the competition field and general cell phone use." It is clear they do not want interference in the 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands, so (IMHO) use of Bluetooth in this manner is not allowed. I'd recommend to anyone planning to use this system that they submit a Q&A question about it to get confirmation (unless one has already been submitted and I missed it).

I thought about the same thing. However, I read it the other way, they only want to block Wi-Fi, and allow other uses. The Wi-Fi alliance only certifies IEEE 802.11 equipment. Bluetooth is IEEE 802.15.

If they had really wanted to block bluetooth, they would have had to have big signs at the entrance to the stadiums, as every cell phone has bluetooth.

[kirtar]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

I thought about the same thing. However, I read it the other way, they only want to block Wi-Fi, and allow other uses. The Wi-Fi alliance only certifies IEEE 802.11 equipment. Bluetooth is IEEE 802.15.

If they had really wanted to block bluetooth, they would have had to have big signs at the entrance to the stadiums, as every cell phone has bluetooth.

It's still on the same band though. At that point you may even ask why the bother restricting 2.4 GHz since all of their equipment is in the 5 GHz band (or is supposed to be so I am told). Solution? 802.11y! hahaha too bad I don't have a license for that.

[MrForbes]

I'm confused about why you think rules about what happens on the field and pits, applies to people in the stands? This system is designed to be used by spectators that are far from the field, and it has no interaction with the drive team or robot at all. As has been mentioned, almost everyone in the stands has a bluetooth transmitter with them.

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by squirrel

I'm confused about why you think rules about what happens on the field and pits, applies to people in the stands?

I do not see anywhere that specifies that the quoted rule applies only in the pits or on the field. The rule comes under the category of "At The Events -> FIRST Safety", and is in the same list of bullets as "Do not run in the venue", etc. There is a separate section titled "In the Pits" that specifies pit-specific rules. FIRST has many rules that do not pertain to the pits or the competition floor, like no noisemakers, taping items to walls, bleachers, etc, using objects that would damage the bleachers or floors, not saving seats, etc.

Since the rule is listed with a bullet under a heading of "Safety", it seems they are concerned with wireless interference causing a safety issue. Why would such interference only come from the competition floor or pit area, especially when the pits are typically further away from the field than the stands?

Originally Posted by squirrel

As has been mentioned, almost everyone in the stands has a bluetooth transmitter with them.

I can't say that I've seen anyone using a Bluetooth headset in the competition this year. Technically everyone should be turning off the Bluetooth feature on their phones, but from a practical standpoint simply not using Bluetooth accessories should minimize Bluetooth transmissions to near zero. Obviously the scouting system discussed here is producing much more active transmissions.

[Zach O]

Originally Posted by falconmaster

A miss is a miss you move on, But there are no misses!

I mean to create an average accuracy for the shooters and robots. Counting misses vs. makes could be a good thing to have also.

[MrForbes]

I don't recall any delays due to field problems at the Arizona regional, where they were using this scouting system.

[bandducky511]

Also, if another team was using the same Wii scouting system nearby, will the two systems affect one another?

[engunneer]

It shouldn't be. Since Wiimotes are bluetooth, they get paired with the computer (part of setup). once they are paired, they'll be fine.

Now if two teams are trying to pair at the same time, it could get interesting.

[PICgnosis]

Now if two teams are trying to pair at the same time, it could get interesting.

With BlueSoleil, you have the option to add devices from history, so you don't have to search through all available services. We add the unique devices addresses of the six wiimotes directly to the connection manager and never have to see any other devices.

The data entry and data analysis software is now available for download at www.nventivity.com/scout2.htm. The software is available as two zip files - one for the data entry program and one for the database analyzer. You may not necessarily want these two programs on the same laptop. Each zip file contains a README document that expains installation and operation. The wiimote button assignment pdf is also included in WiimoteScout.zip. This software has been tested on Win XP and 32-bit Vista. It requires .NET 2.0 and SQL Server 2005 Express Edition SP2, which will automatically be downloaded from Microsoft's website during the installation if they are not already on the target system.

We have received multiple requests from people wanting to record missed shots and penalities, so for Rev 1.0.0.1 we have added human player missed shots to the Autonomous and Teleop screens and penalties to the Endgame screen. There is additionally a Human Percent column in the MatchData table of the database.

[POWSpyder]

I think this is one of the best ideas ive ever heard! Wii Mote Scouting= Genius!

[N7UJJ]

Originally Posted by squirrel

heh...do the math! 842 was the #8 alliance captain, they did their scouting using this system, they were the only alliance to win a match against the #1 alliance....

It is even better. We were ranked in the 30s Friday night. We won our matches Saturday and wound up 14th and we felt we would be picked. We were not really prepared to choose two teams but as the selection process went on, we realized that we may wind up in the eighth spot. Karen and Jerry were doing all kinds of analysis with her program and she sent in our first pick, but because we were eighth, we had to immediately pick our second ally. Within seconds Karen and Jerry signaled in the third team that would give #1 alliance and the vomitsaurus (meant in a loving way! It does regurgitate in a rush) from Sierra Vista it's only loss. Scouting made the difference because we had data about the strengths and possible weak points of the #1 seed and chose allies to exploit their possible vulnerabilities. However, no strategy could overcome some most fantastic robots!

[PICgnosis]

This is a fairly good point. Depending on who's opinion you go by, since wi-fi rules aren't really enforced at all, wiimotes could possibly be illegal as they use bluetooth (2.4ghz). Really, it's a decision if bluetooth falls under "Wi-Fi use in the 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands is prohibited."

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=7989

While this post is actually written for an FTC event, I think the response is still valid for FRC. Looks like judicial precedence to me.