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Unread 25-03-2009, 21:49
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Re: Discrepancy at Chesapeake, Israel, Waterloo?

Well, how about the ability to dump that data to a thumb drive via a simple click. If a robot stops working a team can request field data review the data back at the pits?

edit:

I think all teams want is to be able trouble shoot issues they encounter on the field. If a team spends the money to goto Atlanta and their robot stops and the answer is "I don't really know" that will be unfortunate.

Also, with the IFI system all that was needed was packet loss and battery voltage. Plus, they sent a rep to every event that knew the system inside and out.
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Last edited by Kingofl337 : 25-03-2009 at 22:01.
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Unread 25-03-2009, 22:05
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Re: Discrepancy at Chesapeake, Israel, Waterloo?

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Originally Posted by Kingofl337 View Post
Well, how about the ability to dump that data to a thumb drive via a simple click. If a robot stops working a team can request field data review the data back at the pits?
Thats a good idea... I can think of even better ways

Maybe next year we can have a way to do this, the hurdle with FIRST is always resources. And to be honest, with the economy going the way it is, who knows what will happen next year? We're all facing economic challenges.

But, remember why its important to keep the matches running on schedule, regional committees bring in officials to do speeches and such (which many pay for the event), and certain venues will have monetary penalties if the event runs late, so there are many many tradeoffs....

I'm all for providing teams more resources, just have to figure a way to get them paid for.

Everyone write Obama and tell him FIRST needs stimulus
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Unread 26-03-2009, 17:05
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Re: Discrepancy at Chesapeake, Israel, Waterloo?

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Originally Posted by Dmentor View Post
The field crew and referees were fantastic at NASA/VCU (well actually pretty much everything was awesome at NASA/VCU except getting beat in the semifinals again). They were helping to fix problems all regional long. When 1908's gaming adapter had to be replaced before the quarterfinals, Kyle patiently confirmed the configuration and assured us that he would do everything possible on the field to ensure that they were working properly. And he did, thanks Kyle! While 1908's robot was immobile for nearly all of QF 4-1, I'm convinced it had nothing to do with the gaming adapter.
...
Thanks so much to the NASA/VCU crew for ensuring that all the teams had the best possible opportunity to shine!
Thanks! I'm glad your alliance was able to advance through 1908's problems. They linked with the field during QF4.1 but did not move. They reprogrammed before QF4.2 and never had another issue.

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Originally Posted by ColleenShaver View Post
I do think the efforts of the NASA/VCU field crew should be applauded! It's great that they were able to support so many teams and still run a timely event.
Thanks! We were just as surprised as anyone else that we were able to finish on time. At some points, we were even ahead of schedule. For most matches, the field was reset and robots in place before Jeff began announcing teams.

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Originally Posted by bandducky511 View Post
Good job on making it to semi-finals! I remember going against your bot in Q38. It started during autonomous at the outpost and did move; however, it stopped moving after our alliance partner collided with your bot. There was a huge collision with 3-4 robots around that outpost that match (if I remember correctly). The immobile part may have been caused by the collisions :S
Also, the DS does not need to be enabled or disabled. However, before you turn the robot on make sure it is disabled or enabled and on tele-op. The field judges are supposed to automatically turn each driver station on disable and autonomous at the beginning of each match (from what I have seen)
Yes, that collision caused the communication issue. It showed immediately on the Field Monitor after the collision.

As for enable/disable, until the scores from the previous match are committed, the next matches driver stations are enabled. When the team numbers change to the current match, the DS is disabled. There were a few instances where some robots on the field had already booted and their motors jumped for a split second when the field switched matches.

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WGA is ~15 seconds to boot
DS is 10 to 20 seconds depending on how fast it identifies its USB devices
cRio can boot in as fast as 10 seconds (what I've seen in the shop, mine don't have a bunch of user code in them though)

I've seen WGAs link with the field AP in <2 seconds, and then I've seen them take as long as 20 seconds in the field, and I've seen some that don't link at all
At VCU the DS took typically less than 20 seconds to boot. As long as the DS has booted, it took about 30-40 seconds for each robot to sync with the field (from power on, to confirmed communication).
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Unread 02-04-2009, 11:11
Killraine Killraine is offline
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Re: Discrepancy at Chesapeake, Israel, Waterloo?

A couple notes on the data I posted:

1) It is data from the qualification matches only.
2) It was not intended to prove that there were problems at any regional. I noticed this discrepancy and merely posted the data to stimulate some discussion.

I have a question though, after reading through this thread. What can a team do when they have a pre-match checklist, go through and make sure everything is plugged in and it all checks out, and then get on the field and can't establish communication? I know this was the case for our team in our last qualification match at station Blue 2. The "solution" was that our robot was disabled before the match and the match was played. In fact, the field team at Chesapeake seemed to be assuming that communication problems were robot-side. Our team couldn't do anything to prevent and/or fix the problem and the people running the field can't be expected to troubleshoot every robot that can't establish communication. What can we do in this kind of "no-fault" situation that left all of the students on our team feeling dejected and helpless?

Also, if anyone has comprehensive scouting data for the Chesapeake event, I would like to take a look at it. I would need the points scored by individual robots (not teams, would like to eliminate HP points) correlated to a match number. From there, I could look for correlation between non-functioning robots and the station they were at.
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Unread 02-04-2009, 18:16
Rick TYler Rick TYler is offline
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Re: Discrepancy at Chesapeake, Israel, Waterloo?

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Originally Posted by Killraine View Post
the field team at Chesapeake seemed to be assuming that communication problems were robot-side. Our team couldn't do anything to prevent and/or fix the problem and the people running the field can't be expected to troubleshoot every robot that can't establish communication. What can we do in this kind of "no-fault" situation that left all of the students on our team feeling dejected and helpless?
I am NOT an FTA, but I did sit next to them for three days. They can do a lot more than assume that it's a robot problem, since their control console sees lots of information on the field and the robots. I heard FTAs telling teams that their main batteries were low, that their driver's stations were flaky (replaced on the spot), that their radios weren't working right (replaced on the spot), and that they had bad Ethernet cables (replaced on the spot). I was really impressed with how much they knew. Only when the radio link was working, all the monitored on-board components were reporting OK, and the field was reporting OK did I start a match with a motionless robot. For what it's worth, the problems weren't spread out -- it was the same handful of robots over and over again.

I am very sympathetic to your plight (kids on my teams have failed to start in a finals match three times in the last two years), but I don't know what else the field crew can do when all the diagnostics are reporting "Good" but the robot doesn't move. I DO know that the FTAs in Seattle sometimes spent five minutes trying to get a single robot working before some matches, and were always disappointed when a 'bot DNS'ed.
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