2009 Greater Toronto Regional

[darkember]

Does anyone know whats happening right now? The scores havent changed in a few hours.

[VEN]

who's in the finals, the webcast is really distorted

[darkember]

The match results havent been updated yet so im not sure either.

[PatrickN]

2056/1114/2185 vs 188/610/1305 in the finals

[astephen68]

The winning Alliance is: 2056/1114/2185

[astephen68]

Congrats to all three teams and to the finalists.

[astephen68]

Congratulations to 1114 simbotics on winning the Chairmens award

[Bongle]

Congratulations to 2056/1114/2185 on their victory, and 2056 on their record-setting 6th-in-a-row win. I'm kind of disappointed that that ref's call in the 2nd match had to happen as a spectator, because the finals matches were so close and so well played, it was tragic that there couldn't be three played full tilt. I really hope 188 got a warning that the ref was going to block them from re-entering if they weren't punctual. Their robot was nearly on the field when the 6 minute mark happened, I don't think I've seen a timeout be enforced quite so stringently.

Though afterward (and maybe they tried this, I think I saw them score a supercell on themselves) I realized that if 188/610/1305 had been really sneaky, they could have tried to score on each other as hard as possible to ensure a double-supercell removal against red in the next match. This would have prevented red from having the supercell that decided the third match.

[UberChar]

what was that timeout for? i wonder what team 188 was up to when they didn't show up for the 2nd final match? my team was saying they were trying to purposely trying to get penalties so they would have the super cell's removed?

congratulations to the winners of the regional

[Bongle]

Originally Posted by UberChar

what was that timeout for? i wonder what team 188 was up to when they didn't show up for the 2nd final match? my team was saying they were trying to purposely trying to get penalties so they would have the super cell's removed?

Not so much a penalty, but the smartest thing for the blue alliance to have done would have been to lose so badly that the red alliance would incur a double-G13 penalty and lose all their supercells in the next match. Since they were almost certain to lose the 2nd finals match without 188, they needed to lose it so badly that it hurt the red alliance in the next match. Unfortunately, I'm sure they thought 188 was going to play with them until about 60 seconds before the match, so they probably wouldn't have had much strategizing time to deal with their loss.

In retrospect, if they had caused the red alliance to be supercell-less in the 3rd match, they might have won, since the last match was decided by a supercell.

As for what 188 was doing when they didn't show up: they were fixing the robot, and they very nearly finished in time. When they made the announcement that 188 wasn't going to play the match, 188's robot was sitting at the side of the field. There was actually a BIG boo when they announced 188 wasn't going to play, I couldn't believe it.

[Koko Ed]

188 wasn't doing anything sneaky. They actually expected to be on the field and we're very upset when they weren't allowed on the field.
It was a very ugly and unfortunate situation.

[Racer26]

This really upset me. I'm fairly certain I've never seen a timeout enforced with such ludicrous definity. Many regionals have been known to have mascots etc dancing on the playing field and run as much as 2 minutes OVER the timeout just to finish dancing before the teams got back on the field. 188 was at the field so soon before that I didnt even notice until Karthik announced they wouldn't be on the field. It was quite evident that the entirety of the stadium DIDNT want to see 188 sit the match out.

I can't help but wonder... *puts on flame shield* if there wasnt at least a LITTLE bit of bias in the decision. 1114/2056/2185 were down a match, and at least 1, and i think more than 1 of the referees have ties to 1114. I'm sure people will accuse me of being un-GP for this comment, but its an issue I've thought of before with having refs who have ties to teams. I don't know what the answer is... it's difficult to be completely unbiased, but it would also be hard for FIRST to find qualified enough referees willing to do the job, who don't have ties to any team. I know this sounds like I'm harping on 1114 and their volunteers, and I'm really not trying to do that, they're great people and I'm happy to compete with them.

The second part I find really questionable is the scoring in Finals match 2. RT Scoring at the end of the match (as i recall) said 84-10. I had watched 188's human player throwing balls into 1305's trailer right from the start and figured out what they were doing. I even watched 188's human player score a super cell into 1305's trailer. Final score came in at 119-48. I certainly didnt see 48 points worth of scoring on the blue alliance. I can't say for sure it didnt happen, until I review video of it. If 188/610/1305 HAD made the double G14, 1114/2056/2185 wouldn't have had the super cell that won finals match 3.

The other issue I've noticed with Lunacy is the way field reset and the final tally of the rocks is done. It seems very haphazard and I'm sure at some point theres been mistakes made in the counting. When 3 people are removing balls from a trailer with little-to-no communication between them, how can they possibly get an accurate count? I don't fault any particular person on this one, its just something I've noticed. The volunteers all do a great job and should be commended for their service to the community.

[Steve W]

I am on team 188 and I will tell you right now that there was in NO way any bias on the call. In fact the head ref that made the call was a former 188 team member. I was as upset as any but I have to say that the head ref made the right call. As for the reason of Team 188 calling the time out and being late I have no inside knowledge as I try to be removed from the team while I am a volunteer.

This final was well played, tough and exciting. Kudos go to the #1 alliance as they were great competitors and gracious winners. I for one hold no ill feelings against anyone at the competition and I still say that it is the best in FIRST.

As for the webcast and scoring issues, there was a major DSL crash in the Mississauga area. On Thursday the system went down for 10 hours or so and affected about 800 users. Todays failure was worse and there were more than 8000 users affected. I did my best to escalate the situation as the company I work for donated the services. Unfortunately this affected the webcast and the scoring update, however try as I might, it was out of my hands.

[Racer26]

...Thanks Steve. I feel better knowing the head ref is 188 Alum. GTR is, and always has been, my favorite FRC event, and its always very well run. I haven't ever really noticed many bad calls at Waterloo or GTR as far as the reffing goes, I've never seen anything in the Canadian regionals like whats happened at some of the regionals south of the border.

As a Side Note: Anyone know if we're going to be seeing the videos from GTR posted to TBA or anything? I really wanna see Finals 2 again.

EDIT: I think this is the end of our Official Season, I'll be watching the webcasts of Championships (can 1114 join the elite back-to-back championship club which currently consists only of team 71?, can 2056 win championship? we'll have to wait and see...), and I'll see you all at Kettering Kickoff in september, and hopefully at Brunswick Eruption if I can make it down there.

[Kate00]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

I can't help but wonder... *puts on flame shield* if there wasnt at least a LITTLE bit of bias in the decision. 1114/2056/2185 were down a match, and at least 1, and i think more than 1 of the referees have ties to 1114. I'm sure people will accuse me of being un-GP for this comment, but its an issue I've thought of before with having refs who have ties to teams. I don't know what the answer is... it's difficult to be completely unbiased, but it would also be hard for FIRST to find qualified enough referees willing to do the job, who don't have ties to any team. I know this sounds like I'm harping on 1114 and their volunteers, and I'm really not trying to do that, they're great people and I'm happy to compete with them.

I'm almost speechless right now. You're seriously accusing a WFFA winner, former head referee at many regionals and one of the people with the most integrity I have ever met of being biased? He was not even supposed to volunteer this weekend, and graciously stepped in, leaving his team shorthanded, when one of the referees fell ill. This is the person you're accusing of being biased?

Three of the referees on the field has ties to 188. Including the one who also had ties to 1114. The head referee was on 188 in high school.

The decision was NOT made or influenced in any way by the referee with ties to 1114. The decision was made by the head referee (who had ties to 188) and the field supervisor, who had ties to NO team.

It's incredible to me that you are okay with just accusing a volunteer of being biased and influencing a match to that extent in a public forum without knowing any of the facts.

This really upset me. I'm fairly certain I've never seen a timeout enforced with such ludicrous definity. Many regionals have been known to have mascots etc dancing on the playing field and run as much as 2 minutes OVER the timeout just to finish dancing before the teams got back on the field. 188 was at the field so soon before that I didnt even notice until Karthik announced they wouldn't be on the field. It was quite evident that the entirety of the stadium DIDNT want to see 188 sit the match out.

This exact situation happened at GTR in the semifinals last year. 188 was on the alliance that benefited from a 3 on 1 situation. They should know better. The rules are the rules, and this was a 100% correct interpretation.

I was also completely appalled at the boos that went up when the decision was announced. I thought I was at a FIRST event, where values of gracious professionalism were espoused. I thought there was no place for booing at a FIRST event. I guess I was wrong.

To clarify: This was not a smattering of boos. This was at least half of the stadium, booing the head referee. It was incredibly disconcerting and dismaying.