2009 Greater Toronto Regional

[J Flex 188]

For those that don't know Shawn (soon to be Mr. Lim to his students), he is a person of the highest quality, calibre, respect, integrity, humility and plain old, good nature and character than any other person you can find in FIRST, or pretty much in the world at large. The fact that he put up such a detailed post at such an early hour when a firestorm was brewing and taking the blame himself attests to that. I first got to know him 5-6 years ago when he came back from university to mentor and when he was my drive team coach in 2004-2005. He's also been a boss, advisor and most of all a friend to me since those days.

The great thing about the GTR or CR as I still call it is that you run into alumni from various teams, but especially from 188 everywhere you go. The other great thing about the GTR is that these same alumni have spawned multiple other teams, including 1114, whose main mentors I can say have the same characteristics and mental attitude as Shawn.

I would just want to highlight one more thing for the CD community at large to know . As soon as the boos started to rain down, I saw a team member from 188 who had been a grade 9 student during my first year of university and helping 188 post-high school stand up and wave emphatically to all those around him, not on his own team, with a passionate look on his face to stop the booing immediately. That single moment should stop any and all speculation as to the reputation of 188 for respect for the game and what FIRST stands for. You may be able to teach the ideals of FIRST and of GP to everyone and anyone, but getting them to live by it, as some as said, may prove to be a more difficult task. But what I can safely say is that everyone on 188 does understand this and spreads it as best as they can.

This was a fantastic regional to attend and I sincerely hope this controversy dies down to a point where it is forgotten. It is not human nature to "act like a robot" and forget everything in the heat of the moment, behind the robot, there are human minds and faces and we have to let them cool off the same we let a robot's motors cool off after a hard set of matches as well. Congratulations go out to all alliances and all teams that participated in this regional!

[PatrickN]

For anyone who thinks there might be a little blind defending of the refs or who thinks they're being made out to be completely infallible I'll say this, I was on 188's drive team in the past and I've always felt that our alumni refs busted our butts just a little bit extra. Having said that, they've NEVER changed the outcome of any competition I was at and I don't think they changed the outcome of this one. I certainly don't think they've ever made a decision because of team number and really I'd consider it a good natured kind of ribbing I would chalk up to either A) Tough love or B) Making real certain they weren't favouring us.

Even before seeing his post I knew what happened after the match. With a veteran coach like Shawn Lim, the absolute MASTER of directing blame onto himself and away from a young drive team (seriously, talk to him and every loss in the past five years was his fault), I'm certain 188 will be hungrier than ever, not just at Atlanta, but next year during the build season, they'll work harder and learn more, which has got to be a good thing.

Very small discrepancies in philosophy are going to exist from ref to ref and it's simply part of the game. In the past, before the current crop of kids who actually know how to build a robot that stays intact, we would constantly squeeze extra seconds and minutes out to try and repair our broken robot. I never heard an opponent whining about that and we never got more than a ref/field crew repeating their directions to us. It's just part of the game and certainly another ref at another regional might have decided "Hey, they weren't trying to get a competitive advantage, I think I'll let them on since I think it's the 'right' thing to do". I'd consider that opinion to be totally valid, just like I consider this decision to be completely valid. Personally I kind of like watching Jordan hit that 20 footer, but I'd consider it a completely valid opinion if someone said they'd prefer seeing a clip of John Stockton ice a couple free throws and everyone mobbing Bryon Russell. Which leads nicely into my other, unrelated comment...

To Karthik: I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of your sports references are going over people's heads or going unnoticed by people too busy worrying about their robot, but not here buddy. I'm loving all of them, don't stop man.

To 188: In the past it seems like controversy only happens to stud robots, so take heart in that. Me, I like the controversy. It means... You're close. It means... You're ready. (Watch more NBA playoff games if you don't get that )


The Greater Toronto Regional: Where Karthik blatantly ripping off NBA ads happens.

[Karthik]

Shawn,

It takes a lot of class, integrity and humility to make a post like that one. Thank you for letting everyone one know all the facts behind what happened. You are a true leader.

As for your strategy in Match 2, I think it was brilliant. You knew winning the match was highly unlikely, so you came up with a plan that gave your alliance the best chance of success in match number 3. I commend you for having the courage to try such a different strategy at a crucial time.

---
I'd like to apologize for forgetting to have the drive teams shake hands before finals match 2. There was a considerable amount of confusion before I walked on the field, and even more so when the booing hit. In the midst of all of this I simply forgot to do the handshakes. I sincerely apologize for forgetting this FIRST tradition.
---

Let's focus on everything amazing that happened at GTR this weekend. This regional overwhelmed me with the level of enthusiasm and passion of the students. I spoke to so many people who had such an inspiring level of excitement for FIRST. It's great no only to see that people "get it" but that they want to make other people "get it."

Special thanks and congratulations go out to:

Team 1535 - You've inspired me to get myself a t-shirt cannon!

Teams 1141 & 2200 - For showing everyone that a simple design coupled with smart strategy and dedicated people can be the recipe for a great robot.

Team 677 - As a fellow Buckeye it was great to see this spirited team from The Ohio State University. I had such a blast leading all those O-H-I-O chants.

Team 1126 - This was my first chance to interact closely with team. They really blew me way. From top to bottom they have an amazing program. I was especially impressed with their attention strategy. No wonder they've been so successful over the years. It was great having a chance to chat with Dante, Dylan, Matt Starke and the rest of this role model team.

Teams 188, 610 & 1305 - It was an honour to play an alliance as tough of yours in the final. You played a great mix of offense, defense and empty cells. Seeing the firepower of 188 & 610 was a sight to behold. Our alliance absolutely didn't want to play that match as a 3 on 2. All year long I've been impressed by the students on team 610. They're a great group of individuals who built an amazing robot. This is definitely one of the most underrated teams in FIRST. Team 188, you guys are just amazing. This team has grown so much this year and has shown it on and off the field. I've talked about the deadliness of their robot before, but when you add in the strategies that they were running it becomes that much more dynamic. Also to 188, thank you for taking the time to watch the 1114 Chairman's presentation and provide the valuable feedback that you did.

Teams 2056 & 2185 - This was really a fun alliance. Team 2185 earned their second regional victory of the season by playing some savy, hard nosed defense. As for 2056, I don't even know what to say. They have now won six consecutive regionals. That streak is the longest in the history of FIRST. We are talking about an unparalleled reign of dominance at the regional level. I've had a chance to spend more time with them this year than I have in the past, and this team blows me away. They have a group of students who absolutely love robots, their driveteam is definitely one of the best that I've seen. Tyler and Stan, you two have built a dynasty. Congratulations. Thank you for picking us.

Team 2809 - Rookie All-Stars!!! When you look at this team, it's nearly impossible to realize that they're rookies. They carry themselves like a team who's been around for years, role models to everyone who sees them in the pits, the stands and on the field. It's no wonder since they have a group of extremely dedicated and experienced FRC and FLL mentors. Petey, Jno, Michelle, Mike, Kate, Remi, Stu & Christine, the dedication of your students is a testament to the kind of people you are. I see a very bright future for 2809, hopefully starting with a Rookie All-Star award in Atlanta!

The Amazing GTR Volunteers - The group of volunteers at Toronto have been working this event for years. It's really a family like atmosphere and one that I love being a part of. Charles Offor did an amazing job in his full debut as a Game Announcer, and I can't wait to work with him again. Special thanks to Jeremy and Liz for coming up from Rochester to give us a hand.

Everyone who was part of 1114's RCA submission - I can't thank you enough. It's a great honor to earn such a distinguished award. It's overwhelming to see how far this team has come since 2003. Special thanks to 1114 students Candice, Matt & Scoot who were great ambassadors for the team this weekend.

I'm still blown away by the amazing things we saw at GTR this weekend. It was an inspiring weekend. I can't wait to be back in 2010!

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by PatrickN

The Greater Toronto Regional: Where Karthik blatantly ripping off NBA ads happens.

Come on Patrick, don't forget about me ripping off the Herb Brooks speech from "Miracle".

[PatrickN]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Come on Patrick, don't forget about me ripping of the Herb Brooks speech from "Miracle".

Unfortunately the webcast was seemingly constantly down so I only caught a grand total of about 5-10 minutes of the entire competition. Rest assured I would have appreciated that had I seen/heard it. I didn't even catch all of the what you said before the connection died but I had seen the original so many times that even substituting 1080p High Def with a choppy webcast and the combination of Kobe/KG with what appeared to be Muggsy Bogues/Earl Boykins I recognized it

[Justin Montois]

I'm not going to say much about the finals matches except to say I think the right call was made.

First of all, a huge thanks to Team 1126, SparX for being the most gracious hosts to me and instantly making me feel like I was part of the team. You guys are the best and I hope that if some of you travel with our team someday we can be half the hosts you guys were. Congrats on building another amazing robot and your Xerox Creativity Award. I love you guys!

Karthik and the rest of Team 1114, it was great to be able to talk to you for a little bit about your team and their Chairman's efforts. After talking with you and your Chairman's presenters about their presentation style and reading the board of your accomplishments, I knew you were going to win. Thanks for taking the time to talk with me and we are honored to have you presenting with us at Championship for the Chairman's Award. Oh and a side note, congrats on winning the regional as well!

Congrats to The winning alliance and the finalists for putting on a great show and proving this game can be exciting to watch when the right robots and the right strategies are being played out.

Also, I can't say enough about the field crew. Staying on schedule ALL WEEKEND seemed only a dream after what went on when the bugs were still being worked out but you guys made it a reality and it really improved the quality of the event as a spectator. Great Job!

To everyone at GTR, this was my first time north of the border for a regional competition and I can't tell you how impressed I was at the spirit in that building. 1075, 1310 and all the other teams that made the atmosphere so great, thanks for making my first Canadian regional one to remember.

Oh by the way, if anyone wants a 1535 shirt, I think Karthik said something about one being atop the Hershey Centre press box.....

[Lil' Lavery]

Shawn Lim's post gave me an error message I haven't seen before on Chief Delphi. You cannot give reputation to the same post twice.

Shawn, you have nothing to be ashamed of with that strategy, nor was it "un-GP." I'm sure a number of other teams had the same strategy tucked away somewhere in their playbook (I for one did).
Early in qualification matches at the Washington DC regional I spoke to my drive coach about using that exact method if we ended up against a combination of machines (*cough 45 and 234 cough*) that clearly outclassed our alliance. Upon seeing that exact match-up in the semi-finals, we knew it would not work in that particular situation (the #1 alliance did not rely on super cells, though they did incorporate them into their strategy), especially after being plastered in the first match when they were already carrying in a G14 penalty (also, the strategy doesn't work in match 2 if you're already down 1-0 ).
You should never be ashamed of trying to harness the game dynamics to your advantage.

It's unfortunate what happened in the finals, but unfortunate things happen in life. I guarantee you that 2056, 1114, and 2185 didn't wish to win in such a "controversial" fashion, but their achievement should not be reduced because of it.

[gr8dragon]

Hi,
I (programmer for team 188) can't let Mr.Lim(Shawn) take all the blame for not making the field for Final match 2. In the pit during the timeout I was being persistent to change something that was totally not necessary. This caused some argument between the pit crew who tried to convince me to not bother. In all the talking we forgot to change the battery, and our electronics guy rode the cart to the gate changing the battery. We had ample time, warnings and no fixes to be made. So I felt guilty for letting Mr.Lim take the blame. Sorry to everyone on the team. Especially Leo and Karsin for not listening to you guys.

[Starke]

Originally Posted by SlimBoJones

On my way back to our driver station, I bumped into Karthik, and exclaimed:

"I think the GDC is going to hear about this match... watch it carefully!"

It was so loud and chaotic, I was running, he was trying to do damage control as MC, and I'm pretty sure he didn't hear me at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure he probably thought he heard me insult his mother, and to watch out because I was coming for him and the rest of his family after the regional.

It was a gross misunderstanding, and no doubt we will laugh long and hard about this for years to come.

I don't know if there were comments targeted at Karthik about his reaction after this incident, but again, I implore you guys to calm down and understand the context in which all this occurred. If those comments were directed at me and my reaction regarding hitting the lexan, I'm fine with that. That was pretty tasteless, and it won't happen again.

Thank you for posting this. I saw this "shove" into Karthik and I could not believe what I saw from a team that I look up to. Thanks for the explanation.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Starke340

Thank you for posting this. I saw this "shove" into Karthik and I could not believe what I saw from a team that I look up to. Thanks for the explanation.

Yup, I want to make this very clear for everyone. Before Finals Match 2, Shawn ran past me and tried to get my attention. Since he was running, this tap may have appeared to be a "shove". It most definitely was not. It was just a fairly intense moment and a huge misunderstanding. Shawn and I have been friends since we were 12 years old, and I know he would never ever do anything to intentionally disrespect me. (Well, except crack jokes about my fantasy hockey teams.)

[Mike Starke]

Shawn, thank you for that explanation. You mentioned it's "1 in the morning", but it posted at 3:36 am. Haha. Thanks for the hard work, and time you put into that post.

1126- You guys are a complete pleasure to be around. Along with Justin, thank sooo much for being our hosts, and letting us get some floor space in your hotel rooms, and sharing food and laughs and all that. I really look up to your team. You guys are great friends and an awesome inspiration.

To all the volunteers, thanks for your tremendous hard work. I know some jobs may not be that glamorous, but you did them with class, style, dedication and hard work. I couldn't believe how quickly matches ran. The time between was next to nothing, and team introductions were kept super short, which I liked- Thanks to Karthik and the game announcer.

Only seeing how FLR and NJ and Buckeye is set up, I really like the Hershey Center. The pits aren't as close as FLR, but that's no big deal. The atmosphere was great, and everyone was super nice. The competition was great, and the competition in the finals will be something that will be remembered for a long time.

I hope to return to GTR in the future. Thanks again to everyone. Good luck the rest of the year!

[Zuhaib Ali]

Personally, this regional was by far the most fun of any FIRST event I’ve been to. The atmosphere at the event throughout the weekend was simply electric, setting the stage up for everyone to shine. We saw everything this weekend: upsets, high scores, joy and elation, and crushing defeats. Stories from throughout this weekend will be told for years to come.

First off, I’d like to thank our alliance partners 610 and 1305 for doing a remarkable job and pulling through in clutch situations. We truly made the #1 alliance work for their win, and perhaps more importantly we put on a great show for everyone

To 610, after your performance, we’re convinced that you guys are one of the best alliance partners we’ve worked with. Our team was also extremely pleased to see your team return to the high levels that we know you are capable of. We loved you versatility and would like nothing better than to see you find some way to make it down to Atlanta

I loved 1305’s drive team through the eliminations! You guys went on the field and were able to get the most out of your robot doing everything in your power to win. We owe your team a great deal of thanks. Without your empty cell deliveries they would have been no way for us to score the last second super cells. You contributed so much to our alliance, perhaps more than most people were able to see. The intangibles often make all the difference. Thank you and see you in Atlanta!

2056 was indeed the best team in terms of performance on the field. Your team has really come a far way winning your first 6 regional’s in a row. That is an accomplishment no one but your team holds. Be proud of it. Going 8-0 in qualifications was no coincidence. You guys deserve a lot of credit especially when you had a tough schedule. Your robot will be a huge force to reckon with in Atlanta.

Congratulations to team 2185, your team is now part of the 2 regional win club. Both your robot and drive team showed you were one of the best defensive teams out there. If we didn’t need an EC deliverer as badly as we did, you most definitely would have been a notable partner. Your drive team had a lot of confidence which took you guys a long way.

Once again, 1114 put on a stellar performance and they continue to be great role models in all of FIRST. After taking a look at their chairman’s display I realized they did so many things I wasn’t even aware of. It was dam impressive and I knew right away it was a championship submission.

The dilemma that occurred in the finals is regretful. Head referee Fraser Allan did his job by making the correct call. I’ve had a couple of conversations with Fraser and he is an amazing person to be around. What happened in the finals can’t be more clearly explain.

Mr. Lim, we win as a team and lose as a team. You didn’t let anyone down and the blame can’t be solely placed upon you. Matter of fact, many team members including myself were present at the pits during the time out and we all ceased to remind ourselves to be on the field. We might have lost the finals, but the team gained much more from your truly inspirational character.

Originally Posted by Karthik

Our alliance absolutely didn't want to play that match as a 3 on 2.

We totally understand that. Team 1114 and 2056, you guys should definitely be proud of your victory. Team 188 started the build season in hopes of being as good as, if not better, than teams like 2056, 1114, 71, 111, 217, 67….. and the list goes on. You are teams we derive inspiration from. Powerhouses exist for a reason. They make everyone try so much harder. Thank you!

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Steve W

They were not recorded by Discovery Channel so unless someone had a recorder or copied the stream I don't have any.

Did anyone remember to bring any recording equipment?

[Kate00]

As a sidenote, I would like to say that I was not taking issue with the discussion of biased referees in general. I know that that is potentially an issue, and welcome general discussion of if it exists and how to stop it.
What I did take issue with was the specific pointing of fingers at a specific referee, specific team and specific regional. Without knowing all of the facts, randomly accusing specific people who you do not know is unacceptable to me. Even if the claims are unfounded, many take them at face value, and it is potentially very damaging to the reputation of the individual, team and even the regional.

Now, onto the happier part of my post. I was not actually supposed to be at this regional – I was told on Tuesday that they were desperately in need of a lead queuer. As I had filled that position at Waterloo last year, they asked me if I could come out, and I jumped at the chance, and I’m glad I did.

Congratulations to Teams 1114, 2056 and 2185. The way you won may not have been how you would have liked, but the level of skill you showed in finals match 3 and all throughout the eliminations leaves no doubt in my mind that you deserved the win. The level of class, dedication and effort you showed was at the level I always have seen for your teams - above and beyond.

1114 – I was completely blown away by your Chairman’s presentation when I saw it on Thursday night. Everyone who put effort into that should be incredibly proud of themselves, and know that you truly deserved this award. The things you have done for the FIRST community are unparalleled. Those of you who haven’t watched their episodes of Degrassi are really missing out!

Thanks to “my” team, 2505. With the incredible mentors you have, it’s only a matter of time before you become a new Canadian superpower.

188/610/1305 – Congrats on a hard fought finals. Thank you to Shawn for your post earlier – you have a tremendous amount of class, and I am proud to have worked with you in the past and hopefully again soon!

To my queuing team: never did I think we would be capable of running ahead of time on a (mostly) 6 minute match schedule, but we did! You all were fantastic, and I appreciate everything you did so much. I hope to work with you again in the future.

Thanks to Jess Breadner for all of your help at lunch on Saturday, and for bringing me my fruit.

Fraser Allan was an amazing head referee with a thorough knowledge of the rules – many times I saw him after a match go running over to the scorer’s table to go through the manual to confirm that the referees made the right call.

There were ups and downs throughout the weekend, but I am still glad I made the decision to trek up from London to make it, and I hope to be back next year.

[Jonathan Norris]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Did anyone remember to bring any recording equipment?

Kevin Reid from 2609 brought his equipment and was able to record Saturday morning, his recording of the afternoon didn't end up working for some reason... Hopefully someone else has a recording of the afternoon.

I was too busy getting my team ready for GTR and didn't bring my equipment.