Michigan rankings

[Corey Oostveen]

In Regards to all the attacks on 2771 I am quite saddened.


We did not want to be a rookie team so we asked FIRST if we could attain a first year veteran status.

They replied stating that it would be foolish to consider yourself a veteran team. But they said that we qualify for both.


So we talked to many people that have been involved in FIRST for a long time telling them our plan of being a first year veteran team. All of the people we talked to laughed and told us there was no way we were a veteran team.

So convinced that we are actually a Rookie team we went forward.

We started with:

4 students that have been involved in FIRST before

$0 dollars to our name.

No sponsors

NO tools, NO supplies, NO past years robots, NOTHING!

NO Place to build our robot


We had nothing but the fight to keep the goals of FIRST alive.


So we will not apologize for going with the recommendation of MANY highly regarded people in FIRST. Along with direct permission from FIRST.

The reason we had more team members that have competed before than our original 4 is we took in students that were kicked off from the their teams. Along with taking the students that hated how things were operated, and the change in direction that happened with the team they were on, We took in the kids who wanted to pursue the goals of FIRST!

For those who feel we are not truly rookies, or that we cheated the system, or that we are not Graciously Professional. Please seek the truth before making such public judgments.

We will gladly give all the awards we have won back (this includes many non rookie awards), because we know it isn't about the trophies! We don't care about the trophies, we just are doing what we know is best for these kids.

We Build Robots to Build Better People!

Corey Oostveen

[lhoppe]

Don’t understand all this fuss about 2771 and rookie status. Here is the point breakdown from their first two events.

Traverse City
0 points ROOKIE ALL-STAR AWARD
12 points Quarterfinalist
14 points Qualifying
12 Seed ranking
26 points total collected at the TC district event.

Kettering
0 points ROOKIE ALL-STAR AWARD
2 points Highest Rookie Seed Award
2 points Chrysler Team Spirit Award
11 points Qualifying
11 points for draft pick
20 points for Finalist
26 Seed ranking
46 points at the Kettering district event

74 total points for the two events

21st place in the rankings. So, even if we take the 2 points away for the Highest Rookie Seed award at Kettering it would not affect the outcome.
Let’s give this team credit for what they have achieved.

[Paul Copioli]

Corey & Larry,

Please do not misconstrue any of my comments as comments against 2771. At Kettering, they were, by far, my favorite team. I am concerned more with the integrity of the process.

Our team went through a very similar dilemma between 2001 and 2002. We actually had to pull a "rookie" team number (817), until some of us petitioned Bob Hammond (the FRC director at the time) for the "new" team to keep the 217 number.

If we were classified a rookie team that year, it would not have even been fair to the actual rookies that year.

Having no tools does not make you a rookie. Having no money does not make you a rookie. Having 9 veteran members and a veteran mentor, to me, means you are not a rookie. With that said, I am positive you did your due diligence. The initial post satated, "you be the judge" so I took the challenge; otherwise, I would not have even posted.

I look forward to seeing you all at the MSC this weekend.

Paul

[lhoppe]

You maybe correct about the rookie status and this may need to be corrected. But all this talk is hurting students when we should be lifting them up.

[dragonrulr288]

I say dont worry about Code Red being called a rookie team. next year they wont be; simple as that. I have no hard feelings against anyone in Code Red, or the team. So shall we drop it? It was FIRST's choice anyways...


Has the link been updated? I want to know if 216 can go to state!!! Ive been worried all through school but it hasnt updated!!!

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by dragonrulr288

I say dont worry about Code Red being called a rookie team. next year they wont be; simple as that. I have no hard feelings against anyone in Code Red, or the team. So shall we drop it? It was FIRST's choice anyways...


Has the link been updated? I want to know if 216 can go to state!!! Ive been worried all through school but it hasnt updated!!!

watch out here https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index....=2009&event=gl or contact your TIMS members, they probably can tell you.

[lhoppe]

Currently there are 53 teams signed. So, if no other teams sign up you may make it in. Your only 6 place under the cut line.

Hope to see you there.

[JNelson]

You are all having a very good discussion about the status of 2771, Code Red Robotics. I appreciate the input from everyone about our status as a rookie team because it something we wrestled with, too. This is only my third season in being involved with FIRST, and I really enjoy the community that focuses on student development. I’m the head coach of 2771, so please let me share the details of about our team. (It’s a long read … sorry about that)



Code Red has been an open book right from the beginning. We sent details of team formation to national FIRST in New Hampshire and to FIRST in Michigan in November and December 2008. We provided full disclosure of who, what, why the teamed formed.



Even as recently as mid-February, we communicated with FIRST in Michigan about our team status and roster. We also posted that info on our website so that everyone would know. In their reply, FIRST advised us that we qualify as a Rookie team, and that we could choose our status, rookie or veteran.



Our students discussed the matter and we also got help from the FIRST community. For help with that, our team consulted with FIRST Michigan officials, and multiple coaches and former coaches for guidance on rookie status. Everyone told us, “You guys are most certainly a rookie team.”



We made the decision to seek Rookie status for the following reasons:



We didn’t even have a host school until late August, about ten days before school started. We worked pretty hard to get the word to the students and get them excited about FIRST.



Going into October Registration, we had no sponsors, no parts, no tools, no build space. We had four veteran students, and several freshmen from a first-year high school.


Our Head Coach was just a team parent two years ago, and was an assistant for one year in, for the 2007/2008 season with Team 288.



We got our build space on December 05, which was a great blessing. We had an empty space then, and not a single tool or part.



We had a handful of committed students who worked very, very hard to build the team up from nothing. The coaches agreed to help to start the new team only if the students and their families were determined to stick with it. It’s only our second year of coaching and had a feeling it would be incredibly hard work to start a new team. That’s why we asked for help from local teams and sought partnerships wherever we could. We did learn that collaborating and forming partnerships were needed to build a program that would benefit students.



Since we had no resources in the fall, we entered the BEST robotics competition as a learning tool. We did a terrible job at BEST, but learned a lot in the process. That program helped our students develop teamwork and drove home the need for team structure and a project plan. It also taught us to ask other teams for help. Davison High school is a master at BEST robotics and gave us a lot of tips. If you want to see what that is all about, go to http://www.bestinc.org/MVC/ .



We gained strength only because the vision of the team, set by the students, was an attractive one. The kids felt good about asking their friends to join a team that stressed character development and fun while learning engineering side of things. After our first four veteran students started the team, four more former 288 students joined the team. Again, we notified FIRST in Michigan right away. We are a rookie team, but I know many teams are telling us we don’t act like a rookie team.



Our students are encouraged to nurture their faith, to have balance in their lives and to seek excellence in all they do.



Code Red is succeeding because the team puts others FIRST.



2771 stayed and assisted in the cleanup and full field pack up at the Traverse City event



We have supplied Student ambassadors for Traverse City VIP guest



We assisted in the field pack up at Kettering



We supplied Student ambassadors for Kettering VIP guest



We also Webcast all Michigan Events (free of charge or payment in any type)



We hauled the playing field from the Lansing event to the west MI event (note we did not even participate in the Lansing event).

Pulling the trailer was no small task. A half-ton chevy pickup struggled to move it across the parking lot. So we needed to use a ¾ ton suburban to haul it to GVSU - gas mileage was killer.



We setup and tore down West Michigan. Our students actually worked from right after school on Wednesday until 8:00 PM to help set up WMD, sacrificing prep time for the tournament.



The tear down at WMD included picking up two layers of flooring with Creston’s team, and our kids stayed until 9:30 that night and missed a planned team party. They were bummed, but stayed willingly because it needed to be done.



Throughout the competition season, our students have started and actively mentor two Lego League teams at a grade school. Instead of rebuilding our robot, we are working two nights a week to inspire and teach younger kids. Having a competitive robot is a goal of Code Red, but not as important as providing opportunities to others.



If anyone noticed, we cheer for all other teams at the competition, including 288 and 216. We respect them and admire their achievements. Code Red wants to be an asset to the FIRST community, and also to kids who have not even heard of FIRST robotics yet



We had some veteran FIRST students, but we have a team and have built partnerships in a short time only due to God’s grace and tons of hard work. There is a whole lot more to our team than just the web site, and our robot, and our students. We have learned a lot from other FIRST teams, especially Team 904. We’ve gotten help from Team 1254, BOB,(Team 85), Team 74 and many others. Our team worked hard to get corporate partners on board, and we are grateful for the support.



With help from others, Code Red students have earned their way toward any success they’ve achieved. FIRST agreed that we are rookies. Just a few month’s ago, we had nothing but a few students, a couple of coaches and a dry erase board. We handed a marker to the students, and asked them,, “What do you want your robotics team to look like.” The kids (returning and rookies) wrote our vision statement and the team goals. Because it is they’re vision, they have a vested interest in achieving it. If you’d like to see our vision statement, let me know.



We have a blend of students who set some very high goals, and work well as a team to get there. The vision set by FIRST of gracious professionalism has attracted many first-year students to the team and, “they get it”.



Thank you all very much for your time.

By the way, congratulations to the people who put on WMD. It was a wonderful event. Also, congrats to 216, 1918 and 1254 You were a great alliance!

[Ryan Caldwell]

Speaking for 2851 Crevolution a rookie team out of michigan, we noticed this issue and decided we better work a little harder. FIRST officials call 2771 a rookie thus they are a rookie end of story.

Dose this mean other rookie teams might have to work a little harder to keep up? Yes

Should 2771 give back thier awards? H3ll No!
those students put in hard work to win nomatter if they competed last year or had never even seen a FIRST comp before.

I think some of us are missing the big picture, it is just a game we play to further our students excitement and learning potential.

Is it cool to win? H3ll yeah
Is it cooler that students have pride in themselfs, in thier team? H3ll yeah

This issue should have been handled with more class and discression, these are just kids. Don't try to put an * on thier accomplishments.

I wish 2771 the best of luck at states, we'll see ya there.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by JNelson

Code Red has been an open book right from the beginning. We sent details of team formation to national FIRST in New Hampshire and to FIRST in Michigan in November and December 2008. We provided full disclosure of who, what, why the teamed formed.

Even as recently as mid-February, we communicated with FIRST in Michigan about our team status and roster. We also posted that info on our website so that everyone would know. In their reply, FIRST advised us that we qualify as a Rookie team, and that we could choose our status, rookie or veteran.
[...]
We gained strength only because the vision of the team, set by the students, was an attractive one. The kids felt good about asking their friends to join a team that stressed character development and fun while learning engineering side of things. After our first four veteran students started the team, four more former 288 students joined the team. Again, we notified FIRST in Michigan right away. We are a rookie team, but I know many teams are telling us we don’t act like a rookie team.

It looks like you guys followed all the proper steps in this situation. Contact FIRST and FiM, and when things change, contact again and follow what they tell you, is the way to go in this case. They told you you could choose, and a number of vets told you you were a rookie. So, you formed as a rookie. I can't say that I'd do differently.

If you object, this is not the proper place to do so. Contact FIRST and FiM directly. Guess what, you've been beaten to it.

To 2771, good luck in your upcoming competitions.

[dragonrulr288]

hmm.. I wonder how many times I have clicked the refresh button on the stat list... Ahh! why isnt it updating?? Its driving me insane!

[drhall]

Originally Posted by dragonrulr288

hmm.. I wonder how many times I have clicked the refresh button on the stat list... Ahh! why isnt it updating?? Its driving me insane!

Abby,

We will not know until tomorrow at the soonest- You will get an e-mail before it even shows up on any website letting you know if we are going.

Mr. Hall

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by GVDrummer

With the teams that competed at West Michigan Regional this weekend, I believe a majority of them have already competed in 2 events.

7 in WMD, 6 in Troy D were competing in their 3rd event. Far from a majority. There was also one team in Lansing that was the 3rd event.

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

I'm all for allowing teams to have a 3rd event. On the other side, if they didn't allow 3 events, then a way to increase the # of teams in the later weeks would be to get rid of 1 or 2 of the 7 districts. 2 weeks in a row now we have had 2 events. If we took away 1 or 2 of those, the events would all be full.

With fewer districts, there wouldn't be enough spots for all teams to get 2. We needed 6.6 events to ensure every team could go to 2.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

With fewer districts, there wouldn't be enough spots for all teams to get 2. We needed 6.6 events to ensure every team could go to 2.

If you bumped it up from 40 teams to 44 teams you would get everyone 2 comps with 6 events. You might not get 12 matches but 10 or 11 is still WAY better than 7.

[Molten]

I've been thinking about the 2771 dilemma. I really don't think they were rookies, but they are much closer to a rookie then a veteran. Of the two, they were in the right place. Perhaps FIRST should consider making a third classification. One that would be between the two ends of the spectrum.