DREAM Act in Congress

[Nawaid Ladak]

Originally Posted by wendymom

I checked your list and Whew....both Florida Senators are voting yes

I second Wendy's Statement

on the whole Immigration thing, haven't we seen this in FIRST already... somewhere like this?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1595837.shtml

that maybe... anyone remember that?

[N7UJJ]

Originally Posted by Nawaid Ladak

I second Wendy's Statement

on the whole Immigration thing, haven't we seen this in FIRST already... somewhere like this?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1595837.shtml

that maybe... anyone remember that?

For those who do remember Amadou and his impact on FIRST, you will be happy to know he is now a permanent resident He is still a FIRST mentor.

Sometime immigrants who have the greatest struggle become the best citizens.

[jhaugen]

Team 842 met with Amadou when he attended the Championships. Believe me when I say that he isn't alone.
Below I've attached a copy of my request for our US Representatives and Senators to support the DREAM Act. Understand that I could have easily substitutedthe word "our" many times throughout the letter and replaced it with "our country's" which would encompass a national perspective.

"I am writing this in order to ask for your support for the upcoming DREAM Act.

I am the school’s Special Education Facilitator and a mentor/coach for our award winning robotics team at Carl Hayden Community High School in Phoenix. In these capacities I get to work daily with the lowest functioning students as well as some of the most gifted students on campus. Passage of the DREAM Act will help students in both of these areas.

The DREAM Act will help make it possible for some of our country's lowest level/functioning students to reach their highest potential. Currently they are not eligible for continuance of services beyond high school. Due to their developmental disabilities, many of the students need additional services in order to become active productive members of society. They currently miss out on services that would continue their training to a point where they can be gainfully employed, live in an assisted living area, and pay for many of the services they receive, as well as pay taxes for other services.

Passage of the DREAM Act will additionally help many of our country's brightest students reach their goals and aspirations. We have students who are valedictorians, salutatorians, future engineers, doctors, biologists, business leaders, chefs, computer specialists, game designers, math and science teachers, and any other of a multitude of careers who might not be able to fulfill these dreams without the passage of the DREAM Act. The United States already has a vested interest in many of these students.

Many of our country's undocumented students have lived in the United States since they were very young. They were brought here without being asked. The United States of America has become—and is—their homeland. They are Americans! They want to fulfill their dreams just like other American children want to fulfill theirs. Their parents want the same for their children as we want for ours—to have a better life than we have. I’m not really sure what the average cost is to educate students from K-12, but have heard that it is close to $100,000. If that’s true we have already invested a great deal of money, time, and effort in educating these hidden children. I think it is a waste to throw them away. Passage of the DREAM Act will help the United States of America make money through this investment.

By allowing an avenue to become United States citizens many of our students will be able to reach their dreams and the country will reap the benefits. We will have another source of highly motivated career-minded people who are yearning to fill much needed areas: military members, engineers, doctors, school teachers and other fields that the US currently needs. We have the resources here in our country now -- students who have been educated in the US. With this resource in place we could slow-down the recruitment sources like India, Philippines, Korea, etc and continue investing in the country’s future. These students are a good investment, let’s bankroll our investments, spend a little more, and let them pay the country back.

Passage of the DREAM Act will help all levels of students, from the lower functioning developmentally disabled to the most gifted and talented young men and women. These individuals are Americans who only know the United States as their home. They’ve been educated in and by the US system; many excelling. They identify themselves as Americans, want to succeed as Americans, and are willing to do what ever it takes to fulfill their dreams as Americans. We have additionally invested time, money, and sweat in educating and mentoring these students. Why waste this investment when we can benefit from their future as United States citizens?

I urge you to invest in our future; our country’s future; our students’ future; by supporting the DREAM Act.

Sincerely,

James H. Haugen
Major, USAF, Retired
Disabled Vet
SPED Facilitator, Carl Hayden Community High School
Mentor, Falcon Robotics, Team 842"

[falconmaster]

Way to go Jim!

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Apparently I touched upon some peoples hot buttons (Ledge, tristan?), so let me explain myself a bit.

I have helped legal immigrants become US citizens, I have helped foreign nationals become legal immigrants. I am NOT against immigration, in fact I am FOR increasing legal immigration.

What I am against is bills that reward (Giving access to our schools, public services, welfare system, etc) breaking our (immigration) laws, Bills that encourage parents abandoning their children here, and bills that circumvent (DREAM citizenship) our current laws (legal immigration) by rewarding those that ignore our current laws.

While I believe that the OPs heart is in the right place (Believe me, I have huge respect for Ledge and all that he has done), I believe that this bill (and others like it) will only foster more illegal immigration and more children being abandoned, in hopes of a better life for them. This is why I am against this bill, and why I propose 'tough love'.

Again, these are my opinions and thoughts.

[Mr. Pockets]

Just a odd thought: Many people in this thread have pointed out that the undocumented immigrants have a lot to offer to our economy and our country. I'm just curious if that's the case why are they coming here? Maybe instead of trying to find a way to keep illegal immigrants out we could try to think of a way to make them stop wanting to come. I totally agree with falconmaster, the current system of punishing illegal immigrants is currently rather ineffective. But I don't think that we should reward people for entering the country illegally either (it kind of kicks all the people who have been in line for legal entry in the teeth). Instead, is there anything that we could do as a nation that could provide the people entering illegally the things that they come seeking without actually letting them in? That way they could put their various talents towards improving their home countries and that way they wouldn't need illegally enter our country. That would be a win-win situation...or maybe not. Did I make any sense?

[Stormnnormn]

This is a pretty old thread...

Like helping mexico out?
I'm not sure i understand...

[Mr. Pockets]

Yeah whoops, I hadn't checked the date before posting that (not that old though, just a few months). Sorry.

Originally Posted by Stormnnormin

Like helping mexico out?
I'm not sure i understand...

Well what do they want when they come here? They wouldn't leave behind all that they have unless we had something they really wanted (not a rhetorical question, I'm not sure precisely what it is). But if we are able to help illegal immigrants get what they are seeking without them having to break the law in the first place wouldn't that be the ideal scenario?

[N7UJJ]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pockets

Yeah whoops, I hadn't checked the date before posting that (not that old though, just a few months). Sorry.


Well what do they want when they come here?

The DREAM Act is for people brought here as children (well, under 16 years old) and have been in the U.S. for at least 5 years AND earn a high school diploma AND are willing to do at least 2 years of military service OR college.

I'm sure there are very few who decided to "come here" but were brought here by their parents. Few children decide to move to a new country which is now their home. There are many who were brought here as very young children and have no recolection of another country.

It is these young people who have "become Americanized" and are willing to "jump through the hoops" to gain legal residency that the DREAM Act addresses.

[Mr. Pockets]

Good point.
I suppose my point was going off in another direction.
...
However I think that I missed something. Will this bill only be in effect for a certain amount of time or will it become permanent policy? Personally I'd think that the former would make more sense as it would give children living here currently illegaly/undocumented (take your pick) a path to legal citizenship hopefully without encouraging more people to enter illegally with sole intent of abusing the legislation (not sure how exactly, but just in general concept).

Another question: If children can become legal citizens so long as they fulfill the requirements does that mean that the parents who probably have been taking care of them this whole time will also become legal citizens?

Anybody able to clarify?

[N7UJJ]

"Will this bill only be in effect for a certain amount of time or will it become permanent policy?"

It would apply to people who were brought into the country before 16 years old and 5 years before the bill becomes law. Thus it does not apply to recent or future kids who enter the U.S.

If children can become legal citizens so long as they fulfill the requirements does that mean that the parents who probably have been taking care of them this whole time will also become legal citizens?

Yes and no. When they complete their required military/school, they can become permanent residents. Permanent residents can petition to sponsor their unmarried children and spouse. Of course the potential immigrants have to go through the usual immigration procedures. However, since the "Dreamers" had to be in the U.S. before 16, it would be most unusual for them to have spouses/children in another country.

Once they are permanent residents and they wait (is it 6 years?) they can begin the process for citizenship.

If they become citizens, then they, like all citizens, can petition to sponsor their parents. Then the parents would have to go through all the immigration procedures. I believe (I'm no lawyer) that the parents would have to apply from their home country and the fact that they were in the U.S. unlawfully would be a problem. I also think they have to be within the quota for the number of immigrants from their country.

Anyway, I have met a lot of Dreamer kids who have done everything we want all our kids to do except that their parents brought them into the U.S. without papers. Now we have high school and college graduates (electrical engineering, aerospace, etc) who mentor FLL and FRC teams and yet are not allowed to join the military or be employed and risk deportation any time. If we judge people by their character and merit rather than their parentage...

[Chris is me]

Say what you will about illegal immigration and all, but I think that giving teenagers access to a future in science and technology is a good thing.

One may say the parents or whatever are freeloaders / job-stealers / whatever insult you want to throw at a large diverse group of Americans, but when someone wants to punish a child for their parent's "mistake" and deny them these opportunities, that's the opposite of inspiration.

My hat's off to team 842.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally Posted by N7UJJ

If children can become legal citizens so long as they fulfill the requirements does that mean that the parents who probably have been taking care of them this whole time will also become legal citizens?

Yes and no. When they complete their required military/school, they can become permanent residents. Permanent residents can petition to sponsor their unmarried children and spouse. Of course the potential immigrants have to go through the usual immigration procedures. However, since the "Dreamers" had to be in the U.S. before 16, it would be most unusual for them to have spouses/children in another country.

Once they are permanent residents and they wait (is it 6 years?) they can begin the process for citizenship.

If they become citizens, then they, like all citizens, can petition to sponsor their parents. Then the parents would have to go through all the immigration procedures. I believe (I'm no lawyer) that the parents would have to apply from their home country and the fact that they were in the U.S. unlawfully would be a problem. I also think they have to be within the quota for the number of immigrants from their country.

Anyway, I have met a lot of Dreamer kids who have done everything we want all our kids to do except that their parents brought them into the U.S. without papers. Now we have high school and college graduates (electrical engineering, aerospace, etc) who mentor FLL and FRC teams and yet are not allowed to join the military or be employed and risk deportation any time. If we judge people by their character and merit rather than their parentage...

So in effect it would not allow the parents to use their kids to become legal citizens, but they would have to get in line like everybody else. If so then I'm sort of missing the dispute. If the bill is passed then it ends up killing two birds with one stone: the kids get to become U.S. citizens (according to the bill what they want most), and they now have to pay taxes like the rest of us so the government isn't losing out there either...

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Say what you will about illegal immigration and all, but I think that giving teenagers access to a future in science and technology is a good thing.

While I agree that giving teenagers access to Sience and Technology is a good thing, there is a right way of doing things and a wrong way. I personally believe legislation such as DREAM is the wrong way.

Originally Posted by Chris is me

You may say the parents or whatever are freeloaders / job-stealers / whatever insult you want to throw at a large diverse group of Americans, but when you want to punish a child for their parent's "mistake" and deny them these opportunities, that's the opposite of inspiration.

I do not recall seeing in this thread the words "freeloader" , "Jobstealer" , or any other insult (nor would I use those phrases when talking about immagrants, illegal or not). Please refrain from strawman arguments and please do not try and polarize the issues here, these are very serious issues and should be discussed as such.

My issue with DREAM and other legislation of its type is that it rewards bad behavior ... in this case abandoning children and breaking up families. Many of these childeren are abandon because the parents believe that they cannot provide for their childeren as well as the welfare system of the US can, so they abandon their childeren here ... knowing that they will be fed, medically treated, educated, allowed to hold jobs, and now ... thanks to DREAM ... have a chance at becoming a citizen of the US ... and all the parents have to do is illegally enter this country and abandon their child.

The US government is a poor mother and a poor father, and promoting the distruction of the family unit is even worse ... and that is what DREAM and the other associated legislation does, whether it intends to or not.

Originally Posted by Chris is me

My hat's off to team 842.

My hat is also off to team 842. They are one of the teams that truely inspires me, as does Ledge. I just happen to disagree with them on this issue.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

While I agree that giving teenagers access to Sience and Technology is a good thing, there is a right way of doing things and a wrong way. I personally believe legislation such as DREAM is the wrong way.

I do not recall seeing in this thread the words "freeloader" , "Jobstealer" , or any other insult (nor would I use those phrases when talking about immagrants, illegal or not). Please refrain from strawman arguments and please do not try and polarize the issues here, these are very serious issues and should be discussed as such.

This wasn't targeted at anyone in particular in this thread. I have heard such terms being used to describe illegal immigrants before, and the idea was that one's opinion of this can be completely independent of whether or not you thought that particular way of illegal immigrants. So, technically it's not a strawman, I guess, as the argument is not supported by people stating those statements, but I apologize for any implication that anyone in this thread holds that opinion or uses such statements.

My issue with DREAM and other legislation of its type is that it rewards bad behavior ... in this case abandoning children and breaking up families. Many of these childeren are abandon because the parents believe that they cannot provide for their childeren as well as the welfare system of the US can, so they abandon their childeren here ... knowing that they will be fed, medically treated, educated, allowed to hold jobs, and now ... thanks to DREAM ... have a chance at becoming a citizen of the US ... and all the parents have to do is illegally enter this country and abandon their child.

If the bill offered any form of reward to the parents, I would agree that this would be an issue with the legislation. I just can't see myself telling some child with awful parents that abandoned them "Oh, sorry, you can't be a scientist or engineer, we need to teach your parents a lesson."

Independent of the argument, how often does this or will this happen? This is a purely hypothetical situation (to me, if you have evidence that this happens frequently I'll stand corrected), and might not be a common occurrence at all.

The US government is a poor mother and a poor father, and promoting the distruction of the family unit is even worse ... and that is what DREAM and the other associated legislation does, whether it intends to or not.

Personally, I can't imagine any sane family unit would chuck their children over the border because of the DREAM act potentially making their lives slightly less hellish. Especially considering how unlikely a child with no parental guidance would have the required strong moral character.