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[Uberbots]

Originally Posted by RyanCesiel

If judges award based of sympathy for other teams that's kind of disappointing and really discourages effort to make a site better.

And it would be entirely unethical.
but who knows what really happened? i cant really give you advice on what to improve on to overcome the hammerhead's site, because it would seem such improvements have already been made...

[DiscoDancer]

Originally Posted by RyanCesiel

If judges award based of sympathy for other teams that's kind of disappointing and really discourages effort to make a site better.


Because we participate in two seasons, OCCRA and FIRST, it does seem more logical for us if we have the Our Robots and Current Progress under FIRST because we also have similar things under OCCRA when that gets going.

I have gone through the rubric many times. We may have a problem here and there, but I've made sure our site is in line with it.

Thanks again.

I don't believe a lot of it is sympathy, it is more of... did the team this year make the website?
As for OCCRA & FIRST, we have two websites this year, lamar.discobots.org, and 2009.discobots.org. The Lamar one is for all robotics things that we do, you can check it out (but because of the 2009 website, we haven't had time to update it lately). And, the 2009 one is mainly for FIRST, although we do mention VEX a couple of times.

As for the rubric, I was looking through your website a while ago, so I don't know if this is still a problem, but I found some links that didn't point to a real web page... Maybe you found it, but that's a criteria on the rubric.

But, all in all your website is great!

[Allison K]

Originally Posted by RyanCesiel

Today, at the Michigan State Competition Team 226, the Hammerheads won the Best Website Award and I congratulate them.

With that said, what could we do to improve our site? What sets the Hammerheads apart from us and what do you guys think we should work on?

Thanks,
Ryan

I'm not sure what all of the judging criteria is, nor did I go look at what languages you are using on your site, but if they do take language into account that may have made the difference. I've been on hiatus from the team this year so I don't know everything there is to know, but the engineers have said that the student in charge of our website this year is brilliant with web programming (integrating php and such).

In any case, I really like your site as well (I like ours too, but I'm probably biased).

~Allison

[RyanCesiel]

Originally Posted by DiscoDancer

I don't believe a lot of it is sympathy, it is more of... did the team this year make the website?

I'm not exactly sure what you meant by this, but how I interpreted it was that you were asking if we, the students, made it. The answer to that is yes, absolutely. Students completely designed and developed our website and also wrote the majority of the content. Mentors do contribute to the content though (specifically history, alumni, team meetings, calendar .. ect).

Originally Posted by DiscoDancer

As for OCCRA & FIRST, we have two websites this year, lamar.discobots.org, and 2009.discobots.org. The Lamar one is for all robotics things that we do, you can check it out (but because of the 2009 website, we haven't had time to update it lately). And, the 2009 one is mainly for FIRST, although we do mention VEX a couple of times.

It makes more sense to our team if we have all the content about our team and it's activities in one place rather than having it in multiple areas (subdomains).

Originally Posted by Allison K

I'm not sure what all of the judging criteria is, nor did I go look at what languages you are using on your site, but if they do take language into account that may have made the difference. I've been on hiatus from the team this year so I don't know everything there is to know, but the engineers have said that the student in charge of our website this year is brilliant with web programming (integrating php and such).

In any case, I really like your site as well (I like ours too, but I'm probably biased).

~Allison

While this is helpful, it doesn't win you any points. We have two students doing our website (design/development process) which is constructed using many different languages.

Once again congrats to you guys for winning the award!

[DiscoDancer]

Originally Posted by RyanCesiel

I'm not exactly sure what you meant by this, but how I interpreted it was that you were asking if we, the students, made it. The answer to that is yes, absolutely. Students completely designed and developed our website and also wrote the majority of the content. Mentors do contribute to the content though (specifically history, alumni, team meetings, calendar .. ect).

I don't doubt you guys did it. I was saying that they are probably looking for a website that you guys did this year. Some teams have really good design and content one year, so they keep it. And, the judge's might get tired of looking at the same stuff over and over again.

[RyanCesiel]

Originally Posted by DiscoDancer

I don't doubt you guys did it. I was saying that they are probably looking for a website that you guys did this year. Some teams have really good design and content one year, so they keep it. And, the judge's might get tired of looking at the same stuff over and over again.

This year's website is brand new and much different from last year's design.

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by RyanCesiel

This year's website is brand new and much different from last year's design.

And last year you won two website awards. Think about what you changed from last year's website. Perhaps this is a sign that some things were better the old way? Try to pick the best features of both year's sites and combine them to make something that is even better than 2008 or 2009 alone.

Also, I agree with others that the header is huge. It's good to keep the team identity in the site, but that's all you see on the home page.

[ScottOliveira]

People keep commenting on the large header, but I like it. It has been a big trend amongst web developers, especially towards the end of 08 and into 09. The nav bar on the left does take up a lot of room, and would be nicer if you could fit it in better. Personally I like bars along the top, with a sub bar beneath that you repopulate based on selection. However you have enough items it would be difficult to fit, especially given your large font size. While part of me says you could make the entire page wider to fit everything, I know that's just because I'm running at 1680x1050. With a 920 site, you can't get much larger before you start exceeding screen size for older monitors.

You might want to consider having the page load with the 'Start Here' tab closed, so more of the menu items are visible initially. I think it would also look nicer if you were to extend the fade around the page all the way down, instead of stopping ~340 pixels after the header.

I would also move the awards off the front page, especially if they are from a very different site. You're giving the wrong impression that the site people are looking at has won those awards. And I agree it would be very nice to create a subdomain with your site from last year on it, to showcase how you have been changing.

[bmusser]

Both teams have great sites. While asking for advice and suggestions is absolutely great, I don't think it is fair to compare two teams websites in a forum like this. It is only going to cause ill feelings. In the spirit of FIRST I would suggest this thread focus on the advice and not comparing the two sites. Good luck to all the teams in Atlanta.

[RyanCesiel]

Originally Posted by smurfgirl

And last year you won two website awards. Think about what you changed from last year's website. Perhaps this is a sign that some things were better the old way? Try to pick the best features of both year's sites and combine them to make something that is even better than 2008 or 2009 alone.

Also, I agree with others that the header is huge. It's good to keep the team identity in the site, but that's all you see on the home page.

The 2008 and 2009 sites have the same exact layout and page structure just a different look. In fact, last year we also had a gigantic header with the countdown on it.

As far as judging it by how many awards it's won, that's not really the best way to do it. This year in Michigan, you were only allowed to win one district Best Website because they wanted 7 winners for the State Championship.

Originally Posted by ScottOliveira

People keep commenting on the large header, but I like it. It has been a big trend amongst web developers, especially towards the end of 08 and into 09. The nav bar on the left does take up a lot of room, and would be nicer if you could fit it in better. Personally I like bars along the top, with a sub bar beneath that you repopulate based on selection. However you have enough items it would be difficult to fit, especially given your large font size. While part of me says you could make the entire page wider to fit everything, I know that's just because I'm running at 1680x1050. With a 920 site, you can't get much larger before you start exceeding screen size for older monitors.

You might want to consider having the page load with the 'Start Here' tab closed, so more of the menu items are visible initially. I think it would also look nicer if you were to extend the fade around the page all the way down, instead of stopping ~340 pixels after the header.

I would also move the awards off the front page, especially if they are from a very different site. You're giving the wrong impression that the site people are looking at has won those awards. And I agree it would be very nice to create a subdomain with your site from last year on it, to showcase how you have been changing.

Thank you; this is some of the best feedback I've gotten so far. Next year, I'm considering moving to a horizontal dropdown menu of some sort to make the navigation seem less overwhelming and possibly easier to use. As for the fade, I'll look into making it go down further and the end less noticeable.

With subdomains, are you saying I should divide the content from each year into a bunch of subdomains or simply showcase the design from each year on another subdomain? The content remains the same year after year, except the new stuff regarding new seasons.

Originally Posted by bmusser

Both teams have great sites. While asking for advice and suggestions is absolutely great, I don't think it is fair to compare two teams websites in a forum like this. It is only going to cause ill feelings. In the spirit of FIRST I would suggest this thread focus on the advice and not comparing the two sites. Good luck to all the teams in Atlanta.

This is a good point. Make sure that when you're giving feedback, it's not harsh or cruel and respects the work of teams.

[ScottOliveira]

Originally Posted by RyanCesiel

With subdomains, are you saying I should divide the content from each year into a bunch of subdomains or simply showcase the design from each year on another subdomain? The content remains the same year after year, except the new stuff regarding new seasons.

Showcase the design from each year on a different subdomain. This helps to show the judges that you're making something new each year, instead of just reusing the same site, which would be a valid concern given your history of winning web-related awards.

Originally Posted by bmusser

Both teams have great sites. While asking for advice and suggestions is absolutely great, I don't think it is fair to compare two teams websites in a forum like this. It is only going to cause ill feelings. In the spirit of FIRST I would suggest this thread focus on the advice and not comparing the two sites. Good luck to all the teams in Atlanta.

Agreed. That's why I only focused on ways I thought Ryan could improve his own site, instead of comparing it to the Hammerheads. I can tell both teams have put a lot of efforts into their websites, and both turned out excellent.

[lynca]

Originally Posted by RyanCesiel

The 2008 and 2009 sites have the same exact layout and page structure just a different look. In fact, last year we also had a gigantic header with the countdown on it.

Even if your site is high quality ! You need to create a completely new site from year to year or the judge will take notice.

I agree that this is not the place to compare two sites for good or for bad, therefore I think this thread should be closed.

[RyanCesiel]

Originally Posted by lynca

Even if your site is high quality ! You need to create a completely new site from year to year or the judge will take notice.

We did create a whole new website this year. We just used the same layout and content and gave it a whole new look. I don't think this is one of the reasons points were deducted.

What I meant by the post earlier was that we have everything (our content on the left, navigation on the right, the countdown at the top, ect..) in the same spot as it was last year.

[AndyB]

Take note of the points category, "Is this site dedicated exclusively to a FIRST team and its activities?"

The OCCRA stuff may have been taken into consideration when the evaluators were judging your site. It wouldn't be a bad idea to set up a separate site just for OCCRA and linking to it from your FIRST site.

I'm also noticing that it is kind of hard to read some of the darker fonts on an older monitor. This could have also been a possible deduction area.

Content wise though, your website is fantastic. It looks awesome on my home monitor (1680x1050). I'm kind of split on the large header. It looks great but at the same time, the scrolling is not something I like. Maybe in the future, you could have the lower half of it hideable so it pulls more of the page up. (FIRST would want the link to their site to be displayed the whole time I'd assume, so you'd have to swap it with the quote above it or something).

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by AndyB

(FIRST would want the link to their site to be displayed the whole time I'd assume, so you'd have to swap it with the quote above it or something).

I went back and looked at the site again after I read this- I didn't even notice there was a quote there! The font is so dark on the dark background that I can barely read it. I think the picture adds to that effect.

Also, I might recommend moving the menu bar to the left hand side, starting up at the top so that 1) you don't have to scroll down to read the whole thing, and 2) you don't have a big blank space under the center section.

It's a nice website as a whole, but as with any website, it's not quite perfect yet.