battery re-do match at msf

[Paul Copioli]

The battery has hanging out in an unsafe posision.
If things got bad the battery could have got busted and leaked and harm the robot, the field, other robots, and if it was a huge impact the acid could have hit somebody.

That is just not true. You can stick a screwdriver through these batteries and they will not "leak" or "spray" the acid anywhere.

The point is that this exact thing has happened hundreds of times over the past 8 years and the match proceeded with only the robot being disabled.

I just want an official position from FIRST when this happens again.

[Jim Meyer]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

I just want an official position from FIRST when this happens again.

Thanks for bringing this up. It seemed like a very strange way to handle the situation. Regardless of whether a dangling battery is unsafe or not, there should be a fair process for dealing with situations that the head referee deems to be unsafe. Restarting the match completely with no repurcussions for the robot that caused the unsafe condition does not seem wise. There's just too much potential for a team to use this policy to their own advantage. The battery ejection device Paul mentioned is a good example.

In my opinion, pausing the match, allowing the unsafe condition to be addressed, and then continuing the match from where it was paused, would be a much better approach.

[Mike Betts]

The battery falling out is a violation of <S1> and <S4> and should have been dealt with as such. Period.

Having said that, I'd like to caution that these things happen in a virtual blink of an eye. There have been other threads in which Monday morning quarterbacks have also commented on spot decisions made by a field official (example: An FTA stepping onto the field during a match) which seem to go against the "normal" order of things.

However, this was not a "normal" year. There were incredible pressures put on many event officials due to the poor decisions of a few over the last few months.

Was the decision wrong? Yes. But please temper your responses until you have walked in their shoes.

JMHO,

Mike

[Al Skierkiewicz]

If anyone were to ask, I would recommend a shutdown under this situation. Any damage of the battery case can cause leaking, heat or explosion. Therefore any battery not contained within a robot represents a hazard. These batteries contain sulpheric acid in a glass mat. When these batteries are damaged, cases cracked and plates pushed together, they leak, ooze, smell bad and get very, very hot. anything that can be done to prevent further damage should be undertaken, immediately.
As Mike has pointed out S01 and S03 are pretty clear.
<S03> E-Stop - An Emergency Stop (E-Stop) button is located in each TEAM'S Player Station.
Pressing an E-Stop button will cause the TEAM'S ROBOT to be disabled for the remainder
of the MATCH. The E-Stop buttons are intended for remote shut down during a MATCH in
the event of safety hazards and will not otherwise affect MATCH score or duration. Any
TEAM member or referee may press the E-Stop button.

[ShaunT]

In my discussion with the head referee after the match, his plan was to call a penalty and give a yellow card for breaking the box. The FTA called the field fault for safety reasons; whatever discussion that occured did not include the head ref. After the fact it became an "oh well, let's just move on" type of scenario. This is just something that needs to be clarified at Atlanta.

It is somewhat important that this call was made twice at the Troy District event as well. However, there the battery fell completely out of the robot, so that could have been more of a percieved hazard. After the second battery ejection the robot started the match disabled as a preventative measure.

[Ken Patton]

Here is a picture from the Detroit Free Press photo gallery:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/g...arams=Itemnr=7

[Steve W]

This is another example of people not knowing the rules and making their own up on the fly. There should have been a robot shutdown and a penalty for exceeding the max robot size. This was questioned immediately by those watching the webcast and should have been a simple decision for a head Ref with as much experience as he has. That said, the FTA should never be involved with the match once it starts and if the decision was made by the FTA then FIRST should be training them a bit better.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

That is just not true. You can stick a screwdriver through these batteries and they will not "leak" or "spray" the acid anywhere.

Slightly off-topic, but I have to disagree here: Crush a gel cell and very nasty stuff gets splashed around.

A screwdriver causes a puncture. A 120 lb robot at 12 FPS will more likely crush, not puncture. Although unlikely, a worst case could have gelled sulphuric acid squirted over several square yards.

Don