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Unread 24-06-2002, 03:30
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Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?

Posted by Travis Hoffman at 04/11/2001 5:49 PM EST


Engineer on team #48, Delphi E.L.I.T.E., from Warren G. Harding High School and Delphi Automotive Systems .



I must say I was quite disappointed by the fact that
several of our students literally had to drag a judge over to our pit for a brief and, frankly, worthless interview late Saturday. I don't care how big the FIRST competition has gotten; overlooking even one team when considering teams for judges' awards is quite inexcusable. The really sad thing is, we weren't the only team in our area that was disrespected by a judge's no show. Hopefully, whoever's in charge of such things gets his or her ducks in a row, so that this gross negligence does not occur next year. Some of our students were quite rightly disappointed that they weren't given the opportunity to showcase some of their work. I would hope this oversight never happens again.

Rant over.

I love this forum. It lets me warm up for the online survey....

Travis Hoffman
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Re: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?

Posted by Carrie at 04/11/2001 6:25 PM EST


Student on team #27, Team Rush, from OSMTech Academy and Textron.


In Reply to: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?
Posted by Travis Hoffman on 04/11/2001 5:49 PM EST:



Hey,
Not to brag but we had a lot of judges in our pit. Did your drivers meet with the judges after your first match?
Carrie








: I must say I was quite disappointed by the fact that
: several of our students literally had to drag a judge over to our pit for a brief and, frankly, worthless interview late Saturday. I don't care how big the FIRST competition has gotten; overlooking even one team when considering teams for judges' awards is quite inexcusable. The really sad thing is, we weren't the only team in our area that was disrespected by a judge's no show. Hopefully, whoever's in charge of such things gets his or her ducks in a row, so that this gross negligence does not occur next year. Some of our students were quite rightly disappointed that they weren't given the opportunity to showcase some of their work. I would hope this oversight never happens again.

: Rant over.

: I love this forum. It lets me warm up for the online survey....

: Travis Hoffman


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Re: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?

Posted by Carrie at 04/11/2001 6:26 PM EST


Student on team #27, Team Rush, from OSMTech Academy and Textron.


In Reply to: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?
Posted by Travis Hoffman on 04/11/2001 5:49 PM EST:



Hey,
Not to brag but we had a lot of judges in our pit. Did your drivers meet with the judges after your first match?
Carrie








: I must say I was quite disappointed by the fact that
: several of our students literally had to drag a judge over to our pit for a brief and, frankly, worthless interview late Saturday. I don't care how big the FIRST competition has gotten; overlooking even one team when considering teams for judges' awards is quite inexcusable. The really sad thing is, we weren't the only team in our area that was disrespected by a judge's no show. Hopefully, whoever's in charge of such things gets his or her ducks in a row, so that this gross negligence does not occur next year. Some of our students were quite rightly disappointed that they weren't given the opportunity to showcase some of their work. I would hope this oversight never happens again.

: Rant over.

: I love this forum. It lets me warm up for the online survey....

: Travis Hoffman


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Re: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?

Posted by Travis Hoffman at 04/12/2001 9:23 AM EST


Engineer on team #48, Delphi E.L.I.T.E., from Warren G. Harding High School and Delphi Automotive Systems .


In Reply to: Re: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?
Posted by Carrie on 04/11/2001 6:26 PM EST:



: Hey,
: Not to brag but we had a lot of judges in our pit.
id your drivers meet with the judges after your
:first match?

Yes.

Your team didn't happen to have hired Las Vegas showgirls and a laser light show in your pit, did it?



Having listened to some of the responses in this thread, apparently, for good or for worse, more of the "real world" is pervasive throughout FIRST than Dean would have you believe.

Travis

: Carrie




:
: : I must say I was quite disappointed by the fact that
: : several of our students literally had to drag a judge over to our pit for a brief and, frankly, worthless interview late Saturday. I don't care how big the FIRST competition has gotten; overlooking even one team when considering teams for judges' awards is quite inexcusable. The really sad thing is, we weren't the only team in our area that was disrespected by a judge's no show. Hopefully, whoever's in charge of such things gets his or her ducks in a row, so that this gross negligence does not occur next year. Some of our students were quite rightly disappointed that they weren't given the opportunity to showcase some of their work. I would hope this oversight never happens again.

: : Rant over.

: : I love this forum. It lets me warm up for the online survey....

: : Travis Hoffman


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I have to disagree..

Posted by colleen - T190 at 04/11/2001 6:40 PM EST


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Massachusetts Academy of Math and Science and WPI.


In Reply to: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?
Posted by Travis Hoffman on 04/11/2001 5:49 PM EST:



I know that judges met with EVERY team as they came off from Einstein their first match.. No one was allowed without stopping a speaking to the judges.. we had a good amount of time with them and both the high school and college students that were part of the stage crew could speak on the robot and our experiences..

And Friday afternoon judges stopped by our pits and said "You have 2 and 1/2 minutes.. tell us what your robot does"...

Let's give these people some credit.. because they didn't come to your pit, doesn't mean they didn't notice you.. they did speak to every time.. and I thought it was excellent that FIRST worked it out to ENSURE that all teams spoke with judges.. talk to your drivers and coaches and see what they said to the judges..

With 340, you really can't expect all those teams to get a 20minute conversation w/ every judge.. I think this year was better than ever since FIRST made sure all teams were spoken to.. and even if the judges hadn't stopped by our pit Friday.. I wouldn't have felt overlooked.. we didn't win an award, but on that national scale.. it can only hope for so much..

I say good job by FIRST and the judges for doing all the can to be fair with so many teams.. and congratulations to the people who won the awards, don't ever think you don't deserve them or won them unrightfully (is that word?) ... and for those of us who didn't tote home a trophy.. just think about how much easier it was for us to get through the detectors and baggage claim at the airport! ;-)
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Re: I have to disagree..

Posted by Travis Hoffman at 04/12/2001 9:34 AM EST


Engineer on team #48, Delphi E.L.I.T.E., from Warren G. Harding High School and Delphi Automotive Systems .


In Reply to: I have to disagree..
Posted by colleen - T190 on 04/11/2001 6:40 PM EST:



: I know that judges met with EVERY team as they came
: off from Einstein their first match.. No one was
:allowed without stopping a speaking to the judges..

Well, our student copilot never mentioned anything of this. And he is the one that always talks with the judges.


: we had a good amount of time with them and both the
:high school and college students that were part of
:the stage crew could speak on the robot and our
:experiences..

: And Friday afternoon judges stopped by our pits and said "You have 2 and 1/2 minutes.. tell us what your robot does"...

That's wonderful. Too bad nothing of the sort occurred with our team.



: Let's give these people some credit.. because they didn't come to your pit, doesn't mean they didn't notice you.. they did speak to every time.. and I thought it was excellent that FIRST worked it out to ENSURE that all teams spoke with judges.. talk to your drivers and coaches and see what they said to the judges..

You know, it seems rather hokey to me that an organization thinks it can make a fair assessment of a team's robot and related equipment without ever actually going to the pit to LOOK at the robot.



: With 340, you really can't expect all those teams to get a 20minute conversation w/ every judge..

I never expected that. 3 minutes would have been nice, however. Alas....


I think this year was better than ever since FIRST made sure all teams were spoken to.. and even if the judges hadn't stopped by our pit Friday.. I wouldn't have felt overlooked.. we didn't win an award, but on that national scale.. it can only hope for so much..

: I say good job by FIRST and the judges for doing all the can to be fair with so many teams.. and congratulations to the people who won the awards, don't ever think you don't deserve them or won them unrightfully (is that word?) ...

That was never implied. By me, anyway. I'm sure the teams chosen as award winners were very deserving of their awards. It pains me, however, to think that there might have been some teams out there who were just as worthy of award recognition who were shut out because they were not given a fair chance to showcase the results of six+ weeks of hard work to the judges.

Travis




and for those of us who didn't tote home a trophy.. just think about how much easier it was for us to get through the detectors and baggage claim at the airport! ;-)



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I have to disagree..

Posted by Anne Bergeron at 04/12/2001 11:56 AM EST


College Student on team #608, Prowling Panthers, from Georgia Institute of Technology and Georgia Tech/NASA/UTC/Ford/Ike Murray.


In Reply to: I have to disagree..
Posted by colleen - T190 on 04/11/2001 6:40 PM EST:



Judges never spoke to our team on Einstein. They did talk to our drivers for a few minutes after our first match on Curie. They however did not leave enough time for us to say anything else but the fact that we are rookies.

I have been part of this competition for a long time and I was very dissapointed at the judges. I know that they can't possibly look at every team. We all handed in our Yearbook sheets on which we said what our top three awards that we think we could get were. As far as I know, FIRST did not even use these. Judges should have been given those a few weeks before hand so that they can read through them and decide what tems they would like to go visit.

My team was on the last row of Curie and we did not even see any judges walk by. It would not have been difficult to at least visit all the rookie team in order to decide on the rookie all-star award.

I saw many of the judges walking around in groups of 4 or 5. If they actually split up, they would be able to get to many more teams.

I am not saying that whoever won the awards did not deserve them, everyone at the Nationals deserves some kind of award. I just would like to see evry team have a chance to win one.

Just my thoughts.


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can we say common courtesy?

Posted by asher at 04/11/2001 7:27 PM EST


Student on team #31 from jest first.


In Reply to: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?
Posted by Travis Hoffman on 04/11/2001 5:49 PM EST:



During my teams "interview" if you could even call it that, the judge was looking right past us watching something else, after that went on for over a minute I simply shook her hand and said good-bye so I wouldn't waste any more of her sweet time. I really don't think the lady heard a word I, or any of my team mates, said.
Asher


: I must say I was quite disappointed by the fact that
: several of our students literally had to drag a judge over to our pit for a brief and, frankly, worthless interview late Saturday. I don't care how big the FIRST competition has gotten; overlooking even one team when considering teams for judges' awards is quite inexcusable. The really sad thing is, we weren't the only team in our area that was disrespected by a judge's no show. Hopefully, whoever's in charge of such things gets his or her ducks in a row, so that this gross negligence does not occur next year. Some of our students were quite rightly disappointed that they weren't given the opportunity to showcase some of their work. I would hope this oversight never happens again.

: Rant over.

: I love this forum. It lets me warm up for the online survey....

: Travis Hoffman


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Re: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?

Posted by Stephen at 04/11/2001 8:11 PM EST


Student on team #122, NASA Knights, from Grafton High School (Robotics team is at NHGS) and NASA.


In Reply to: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?
Posted by Travis Hoffman on 04/11/2001 5:49 PM EST:



Well, what I didn't like was that the judge we talked to after the first match was asigned to one thing, and that's all we were asked about. Our judge was creativity, and, while some of our things were creative, we wished we could have showed off some of our engineering. Also, the judges (quite literally) asked us to condense each answer into 3 to 4 words. Also, no judge came to us in the pit; I understand that there are very many teams, so I'm not angry, just very dissapointed.


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Not overlooked but....

Posted by Carolyn Duncan at 04/12/2001 6:46 AM EST


Student on team #495, The Pack, from Jamestown High School and VBEP/Raytheon/Saic.


In Reply to: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?
Posted by Travis Hoffman on 04/11/2001 5:49 PM EST:



Team 495 was not overlooked but snubbed. We stopped by the judges table after our first match on Curie, we only stopped because I heard another team say that they had to stop by a table so I asked about it. When we talked to the judge she said she could only talk to each team for 5 minutes, 4 of which she talked about how she had cut her finger and her husband bandaged it up for her. When we told her we were rookies, one of the first things we said, she said "oh, that explains a lot." Then she said goodbye. When a judge talked to us in our pit it was only because he couldn't find the pit he was looking for. We cornered him into listening to us. He didn't listen to us or take any notes just said, "oh rookies." He walked away without any other words. That's just plain rude. I'm glad I didn't let the judges influence my rookie year at the competition.
:Carolyn
Team 495
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Things I have learned about Pit Judging

Posted by Erin at 04/12/2001 6:50 AM EST


Other on team #65, Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?
Posted by Travis Hoffman on 04/11/2001 5:49 PM EST:



We stood around a lot on Friday, got slammed on Saturday, and realized that we'd had been spyed on Thursday (yes, they are watching you on Thursday so what you do that day matters too- it makes them decide if they are coming back or not!!)

If you want judges, you need lots of people in the pit area who are willing to talk to them (mature people) and lots of stuff going on in your pit (Clean area, Pit displays with information, etc.)
Having your awards out is also always a very cool thing for everyone to look at. If you have lots of people looking around as well, it makes them interested. They aren't going to notice the great stuff going on in your team just by looking at the outside, so you have to bring them past the inital impression and take it verbal and visual.

Just some tips on how to reel 'em in.

Just a pointer, don't ever let anyone say I DONT KNOW to a judge, that will more than likely not look too good

-Erin



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Re: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?

Posted by Wayne Doenges at 04/12/2001 1:24 PM EST


Engineer on team #535, G-Force, from Huntington North High School and UT Electronic Controls.


In Reply to: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?
Posted by Travis Hoffman on 04/11/2001 5:49 PM EST:



There were judges there!?!? I didn't see many judges. The ones we did see went right around our booth (the Tiki hut). They went to the booth to the left of us and went around us to the booth to the right of us and didn't even glance our way.
We had a great set-up at the Nationals and we were really disappointed by what we saw.
We went to two regionals (Western Michigan and Motorola) and took Rookie All-Star at both.
Maybe to help the judges spend a little more time with the rookie team they could designate 2 or 3 judges to just the rookie teams.

Well that's my $.03 worth (inflation, you know).


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Right near you guys

Posted by Carolyn Duncan at 04/12/2001 2:31 PM EST


Student on team #495, The Pack, from Jamestown High School and VBEP/Raytheon/Saic.


In Reply to: Re: Anyone else irresponsibly overlooked by the judges?
Posted by Wayne Doenges on 04/12/2001 1:24 PM EST:



I totally understand. Team 495 was across the aisle and down from you guys, we used you all as a landmark for our pit. We were between the Las Guerrillas and the wedge, doesn't help much does it? We got passed up many times until I started grabbing the judges by the arm and walking them around our robot. They still didn't pay much attention.
:Carolyn
Team 495
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