Sitting down during matches

[Mr MOE]

I know that MOE has been a "stand up and cheer team" many times. Generally, we do what others have mentioned, stand and cheer during intros and sit down during the match. If something great happens on the field, we might do an "unplanned stand." It doesn't have to be positive either. Last year, our bot, DynaMOE, tipped over a few times over the course of the season. I have video of some of our team members standing up suddenly when that happened. [Blocked the video of the field, too] People are human and will do these things.

I totally agree that standing during a match blocks others' view and should not happen. I also realize that when teams go to events, they gather team groupies that support the team, but are not team members. We try to educate team members on what we expect, but usually do not have the opportunity to train parents, family members, etc.

So, I agree that we all should sit down. As has been suggested here, if teams do stand, let's try to politely, but sternly let them know why it is important for everyone that we are all sitting during a match.

Thanks for starting the thread. Just don't get me started about saving seats!

[Zyik]

I've done both, meaning yelling "sit down" and politely talking to a team. In Lunacy I had 973's scouts count the number of balls scored and those in the trailer at the end of a match, so any time someone stands up could be a serious problem to the accuracy of the data. I only resort to the yelling if it's not the first time I've had to ask someone to sit down, I'm not perfect, I get frustrated.

The teams that yell and scream are a different issue entirely. It doesn't interfere with data, and while a little annoying if they're yelling while their own team isn't on the field, still understandable for the Spirit Award. I hope I'm not the only one who wishes that there isn't an award for who can lose their voice first though.

[BigWhiteYeti]

No way, people! If a team wants to be on its feet going nuts for their matches, then let them! As a driver, I love it when teams get loud. Nobody can truly get in to a match while sitting down. Matches need more energy, not less. Scouts can take the upper seats if they don't want to be bothered. Stand up and go nuts, lunatics!

[bobwrit]

Originally Posted by EricH

... (which no regional has, to my knowledge), ...)

I know Colorado has one(in the corner by the red alliance's drivers).

[JaneYoung]

There are some teams that are an absolute pleasure to sit beside, behind, around. On Galileo, there were many such teams and I was proud to be sitting among them. Two standouts were 111 and 67. I look forward to future competitions where these teams will be. Not only do they excel in leadership on the competition field but they excel everywhere else as well, including the stands.

Oh, and a couple of times, folks had to say 'down in front' to me. I tried to comply as best I could (even though YMCA made it a little iffy...).

[Dave Flowerday]

To those who think standing is so important, please consider another point (which I believe has already been made, but I'm restating it anyway):

Elderly/disabled people, visitors (people who are not associated with a team), and potential sponsors often sit in the back. This is because they arrive late and/or have difficulty making it down all the stairs and/or don't want to get in the way of the teams. These are the people whose view you are blocking when you stand up. Frankly, for the most part they are probably not interested in the competition enough to stand up the whole day and watch. For some older people and people with disabilities, standing really isn't even an option.

Would your grandmother be proud if you stood in front of her for the whole day and she couldn't see anything? Are you going to tell her to "deal with it" or "watch the webcast"? I'm not.

[Fe_Will]

Originally Posted by EricH

Without a designated scouting area (which no regional has, to my knowledge), the scouts sit with their teams.

OR has a designated area with table and chairs... 2 team members at a time and you get power. Its center about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom.

[Molten]

There is something that is repeatedly overlooked in this thread:

If your front and center and sitting, you can't see the whole field. In fact, depending on what side your on, you can't see anything over the judges/refs. This leads them to stand. Next, the second row stands. Then the third. It continues until you have the problem you see today. The only way to overcome this is to have the stands about 6 feet off the ground. Some regionals are this way(such as the buckeye), however others(such as the boilermaker) do not.

Now, if you really want to see every match with a great view, watch the webcast. Most regionals have them and you can see exactly what's happening regardless of the 'wall' in front of you or the 'jerks' behind you. I understand that you will miss some things, but you will catch most of it. Also, a laptop is not necessary for this, try the tv next to the rankings post screen. It has the video on it and almost nobody is down there to be in the way.

[EricH]

For those saying that the screen is "good enough" (not exact words, but I get that impression) for the scouts to use: It Is Not.

Why not? Well, let me put it this way. You want to count how many moon rocks are being scored by 6 teams. That's a minimum of 2 scouts, and probably 6. Now, the cameras to the screen are nice, except for 3 things:

1. They tend to zoom in on stationary items, like somebody's sponsor panel or a robot that is on its back.
2. If you were watching a football game on TV and the camera cut away from the QB to the WR right as the QB was about to throw to the WR, you'd get annoyed, wouldn't you? Yeah. That's about what happens every few seconds in FRC.
3. The best shot, the long distance one right at the middle, isn't clear enough for anything other than a general idea.

The score panel doesn't help either.

In short, until the FRC camera crews improve their content and quality, you can't use the screen for any kind of accurate scouting.

Look, I KNOW you guys want to stand up and cheer. As long as you aren't doing it during a match, with the exception of exciting parts, I don't care when you do it. But when the match begins, sit down and let the scouts do their thing. IF there's a scouting area (and to this point, I've only heard of 2/47 or so), then that's fine.

But, I would like to note: the 2 I've heard of, I wouldn't want to scout from. One sounds like it blocks off a fair portion of the field (unless it's higher or more towards field center than I think it is) and the other only allows 2 per team at a time, which isn't enough. I don't know about you, but I had a hard enough time scouting 2 back in 2004, and after that, my team went to 6 scouts so we only had 1 each. So be warned: not all scouts will be in the designated areas.


Here's the thing about moving, while I'm here. Because you choose to display your team spirit by standing all through match, anybody behind you can't see what you're cheering about. So they move to another area, or stand up (continuing a chain reaction that makes it to the scouts of another team that sits about 10 rows back, and subsequently being asked to sit down by said team). Then another, similar team comes up. So the people move back, as you're now sitting down. Quite aside from any people who have difficulty walking/standing, especially on stairs, you've inconvenienced them. They also don't get to see what you're cheering for, because they can't see around you. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be inspired by that...


flyingcrayons, I'd have to agree: The easiest solution would be to have a block of seats with good, clear vision of the field that is only for scouts, VIPs, and/or judges, which combination the block is for depending solely on venue. There is only one issue, and that is that some scouts will want to sit with their teams, or that the scouts are the large majority of the team in the stands, so the team wants to sit with the scouts.

Second easiest? An easy-access team cheering area near/on the floor. Keeps the cheering teams down low, mainly out of the direct line of sight of the scouts.


To the teams that like to stand through matches, talk to your scouts. What do they want? Would they prefer being in front of or behind your team during one of your matches? Then assume that most scouts will want that situation, and plan accordingly. If you don't have scouts of your own, borrow another team's for a few minutes on Thursday if you can to help you make the call. Also look into cheering sections on the floor.

[soccerchapo12]

maybe the team should have a place for them to stand and cheer for their team just like in regionals this could keep people moving and showing thier support! this also helps too see your team up close
this means there would be a place to stand but also allow the other team to watch form the stands and also the only teams that can be there are those who are on the floor ready to play. this could make everyone happy.

[chetznutz]

No team ever won a team spirit award by sitting down ALL the time! Regardless of where you sit you should show you spirit by standing when your team is on the field. I have been mentoring for 14 years and teams have always stood when their machine is on the arena. I have been scouting for 8 or 9 years and the teams that stand and show their enthusiasum are not the annoying ones. The most irritating are the people who stand in the aisle talking or just looking around, or wiat until a match starts and then stand and fidget for 30 seconds then make everyone in the row stand to let them out!! Why not leave during the long period of inactivity between matches. Yes G.P. is important so is common courtesy----don't stand in the aisles during activity on the field---don't stop at the top or bottom of the stairs/escalator when everyone is trying to get to the toilet or get a drink and get back in time to see the next exciting match. Sorry, but standing to show your team spitit is NOT rude or obnoxious, however cursing at students and mentors of the so called offending team is. You know who you are and you shpould be ashamed not rewarded. Nuff said.

[Wayne C.]

An observation needs to be made here-

the Georgia Dome seats are not staged in a particularly steep way like they are in some of the arenas we play in. As a result instead of having a good view over the head of the person in front of you the view often barely reaches. So anyone standing for 6 rows below you in the line of sight of the field is essentially a wall and you see nothing on the field.

Since football action occurs way out on the field it is likely that in great plays everyone is standing- and I doubt they are scouting players from the stands.

The Philly venue seemed to have the nicest view of the field with the field in a pit below the start of the seats and a steep staircase to the levels.

[MrForbes]

Most regionals are played in smaller venues such as hockey/basketball arenas, but the Dome is a football field, and the FRC fields are located relatively close to the edges. Think about the geometry.....

I guess it really is a technical problem after all.

edit: I guess Wayne figured this out at the same time I did!

[sammyjalex]

Our team, Miss Daiy, stands and cheers with our alliance during elimination, but in the top of the stands during qualifications where we sit with our wheelchair-bound teammate. In this way we do not obstruct the views of others when they are scouting but do when they are not scouting. Is this reasonable? In both San Diego and Atlanta, for the first time I believe, our team was yelled at to sit down, please sit down, or quiet down. We calmly did our best to either sit to assuage the needs of others or shifted our group over a necessary amount, in these pivotal matches against 968 and 217. I would think that everyone would love to see this display of boisterous enthusiasm for the machine that we as a team built with our own two hands in 6 weeks and even moreso for science and technology itself, which is why these complaints and this thread had me confused. We believe the cheering really motivates our drivers so we try our best to lose our voices through screaming for our drivers and our alliances as a whole. We really enjoy cheering for each member of our alliance in elims with our alliance for an even greater sound.

I do believe Philly had steeper stands this year and also the front center section designated for scouting and media but only two were allowed for each team making the use of this space for an entire scouting team difficult.

Good luck with the resolution. I'd love to share with my team the proper etiquette.

Sam A.
Scout
Team 341 Miss Daisy
Wissahickon High School
Ambler, PA

[EricVanWyk]

Originally Posted by chetznutz

No team ever won a team spirit award by sitting down ALL the time!

Perhaps the spirit award needs to factor in the effect spirit has on other teams.

I've had similar problems with flag waving. I had one team in the front row waving a huge flag for the duration of their matches. Despite repeated "Excuse me, no one can see, please stop waving your flag here", those matches were still for their eyes only.