Sitting down during matches

[Zyik]

I've done both, meaning yelling "sit down" and politely talking to a team. In Lunacy I had 973's scouts count the number of balls scored and those in the trailer at the end of a match, so any time someone stands up could be a serious problem to the accuracy of the data. I only resort to the yelling if it's not the first time I've had to ask someone to sit down, I'm not perfect, I get frustrated.

The teams that yell and scream are a different issue entirely. It doesn't interfere with data, and while a little annoying if they're yelling while their own team isn't on the field, still understandable for the Spirit Award. I hope I'm not the only one who wishes that there isn't an award for who can lose their voice first though.

[BigWhiteYeti]

No way, people! If a team wants to be on its feet going nuts for their matches, then let them! As a driver, I love it when teams get loud. Nobody can truly get in to a match while sitting down. Matches need more energy, not less. Scouts can take the upper seats if they don't want to be bothered. Stand up and go nuts, lunatics!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by BigWhiteYeti

No way, people! If a team wants to be on its feet going nuts for their matches, then let them! As a driver, I love it when teams get loud. Nobody can truly get in to a match while sitting down. Matches need more energy, not less. Scouts can take the upper seats if they don't want to be bothered. Stand up and go nuts, lunatics!

Excuse me, but I can't see from the upper seats if the people below me are standing up. I also don't give a hoot about the volume, long as it isn't hurting my ears. Nothing says you can't be loud sitting down.

You may have meant "Scouts can take the lower seats", which would work much better.

And, like I said, if you want to be on your feet during the matches, do it off to one side or in the back. Unless, of course, you don't care about being picked for the eliminations because you can't be scouted.

[Zyik]

Originally Posted by BigWhiteYeti

No way, people! If a team wants to be on its feet going nuts for their matches, then let them! As a driver, I love it when teams get loud. Nobody can truly get in to a match while sitting down. Matches need more energy, not less. Scouts can take the upper seats if they don't want to be bothered. Stand up and go nuts, lunatics!

You've obviously never been a field scout. Scouts can't sit near the top and still see over the standing folks. It doesn't work like that. If you want to cheer, you go do that. Yes, I'll agree that the pure energy of a match is what makes it so intense, but I'd like accurate data for the pick list if it's the same to you.

I think all scouts should work on getting a designated scouting section, front and center. Limit the number of scouts able to sit down there per team as well.

[Akash Rastogi]

We are a literal stand up team that also scouts in the same place we sit. When we stand during our matches we ask the people behind us if they are ok with it or if they have scouters. Accordingly, we either sit or move. We generally sit high up so we don't block the view of teams or spectators, rarely anyone speaks up if they have a problem with it, which we try to avoid in the first place.

If in the future anyone has a problem seeing or has scouts, tell us and we gladly sit down for your viewing and scouting pleasure.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Zyik

I think all scouts should work on getting a designated scouting section, front and center. Limit the number of scouts able to sit down there per team as well.

At Kettering they had an upper rim for Scouting only. It was fantastic. Each team was allowed either 2 or 3 scout passes. We had our robot scouts up there, and our HP scouts standing in the stands. Kettering was a small enough venue that if you stood, you only blocked your own team for the most part.

[OScubed]

Originally Posted by BigWhiteYeti

No way, people! If a team wants to be on its feet going nuts for their matches, then let them! As a driver, I love it when teams get loud. Nobody can truly get in to a match while sitting down. Matches need more energy, not less. Scouts can take the upper seats if they don't want to be bothered. Stand up and go nuts, lunatics!

You can be loud without standing, and inconveniencing those around you. Scouters frequently can't use the upper seats as there is no power there, and/or they STILL get blocked by those in front of them. As a driver do you LOOK in the stands very often? If so better watch that trailer

[flyingcrayons]

I agree with Mr. Cokely, that the venues at many regionals, especially Philly and Trenton, have different seats than the Georgia Dome, leading to better viewing angles, and less problems with standing

However, I think that the idea that a team cannot root for their drivers and robot is absurd. If it is your round, get loud, stand up, wave your flag, but only for the duration of the match (2 mins). when it is not your turn, sit down, and be gracious, and allow other teams to show their spirit. Inhibiting a teams spirit, teamwork, and team pride is not what should happen at a FIRST competition.

For the many with gripes about scouters not being able to see, i agree. As a lead scouter, i have seen the trouble that occurs when a team in frony of you stands up (as chronicled in my earlier post). the simple solution is to reserve a couple of rows for scouters. some teams have many, so they can share shifts or dom something. At philly, there was a block of seats for team reps... later in the day, many a scouter was seen there for the great, unobstructed view. By reserving the block, scouters can see, and teams can shout and yell and stand without worrying about blocking other teams scouters. this is an easy solution, and i think it will work just great (FIRST, are you listening??? )

PS: the views above are my opinion and only mine. They in no way reflect the overall views of my team. If you see a problem, talk to me about it, and don't view my team in a negative light... thanks!

[1t5h1e1o]

Agreed 100% Mr. Drake. I thought you guys were very appropriate in your cheering/standing.

As a driver, I don't notice or even hear people in the stands during matches, literally. After matches people will come up to me and tell me that they were cheering my name during the match, and I will have had no idea. The time that I get the most/only enjoyment out of my team cheering is when they introduce us at the beginning of the match, and when the result is announced at the end.

With that being said, if teams only stood up at those times, there would be no problem. I hope that my team never stood up during matches, because as I said, I haven't noticed it.

[bobwrit]

Originally Posted by EricH

... (which no regional has, to my knowledge), ...)

I know Colorado has one(in the corner by the red alliance's drivers).

[JaneYoung]

There are some teams that are an absolute pleasure to sit beside, behind, around. On Galileo, there were many such teams and I was proud to be sitting among them. Two standouts were 111 and 67. I look forward to future competitions where these teams will be. Not only do they excel in leadership on the competition field but they excel everywhere else as well, including the stands.

Oh, and a couple of times, folks had to say 'down in front' to me. I tried to comply as best I could (even though YMCA made it a little iffy...).

[Dave Flowerday]

To those who think standing is so important, please consider another point (which I believe has already been made, but I'm restating it anyway):

Elderly/disabled people, visitors (people who are not associated with a team), and potential sponsors often sit in the back. This is because they arrive late and/or have difficulty making it down all the stairs and/or don't want to get in the way of the teams. These are the people whose view you are blocking when you stand up. Frankly, for the most part they are probably not interested in the competition enough to stand up the whole day and watch. For some older people and people with disabilities, standing really isn't even an option.

Would your grandmother be proud if you stood in front of her for the whole day and she couldn't see anything? Are you going to tell her to "deal with it" or "watch the webcast"? I'm not.

[Fe_Will]

Originally Posted by EricH

Without a designated scouting area (which no regional has, to my knowledge), the scouts sit with their teams.

OR has a designated area with table and chairs... 2 team members at a time and you get power. Its center about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom.

[Molten]

There is something that is repeatedly overlooked in this thread:

If your front and center and sitting, you can't see the whole field. In fact, depending on what side your on, you can't see anything over the judges/refs. This leads them to stand. Next, the second row stands. Then the third. It continues until you have the problem you see today. The only way to overcome this is to have the stands about 6 feet off the ground. Some regionals are this way(such as the buckeye), however others(such as the boilermaker) do not.

Now, if you really want to see every match with a great view, watch the webcast. Most regionals have them and you can see exactly what's happening regardless of the 'wall' in front of you or the 'jerks' behind you. I understand that you will miss some things, but you will catch most of it. Also, a laptop is not necessary for this, try the tv next to the rankings post screen. It has the video on it and almost nobody is down there to be in the way.

[EricH]

For those saying that the screen is "good enough" (not exact words, but I get that impression) for the scouts to use: It Is Not.

Why not? Well, let me put it this way. You want to count how many moon rocks are being scored by 6 teams. That's a minimum of 2 scouts, and probably 6. Now, the cameras to the screen are nice, except for 3 things:

1. They tend to zoom in on stationary items, like somebody's sponsor panel or a robot that is on its back.
2. If you were watching a football game on TV and the camera cut away from the QB to the WR right as the QB was about to throw to the WR, you'd get annoyed, wouldn't you? Yeah. That's about what happens every few seconds in FRC.
3. The best shot, the long distance one right at the middle, isn't clear enough for anything other than a general idea.

The score panel doesn't help either.

In short, until the FRC camera crews improve their content and quality, you can't use the screen for any kind of accurate scouting.

Look, I KNOW you guys want to stand up and cheer. As long as you aren't doing it during a match, with the exception of exciting parts, I don't care when you do it. But when the match begins, sit down and let the scouts do their thing. IF there's a scouting area (and to this point, I've only heard of 2/47 or so), then that's fine.

But, I would like to note: the 2 I've heard of, I wouldn't want to scout from. One sounds like it blocks off a fair portion of the field (unless it's higher or more towards field center than I think it is) and the other only allows 2 per team at a time, which isn't enough. I don't know about you, but I had a hard enough time scouting 2 back in 2004, and after that, my team went to 6 scouts so we only had 1 each. So be warned: not all scouts will be in the designated areas.


Here's the thing about moving, while I'm here. Because you choose to display your team spirit by standing all through match, anybody behind you can't see what you're cheering about. So they move to another area, or stand up (continuing a chain reaction that makes it to the scouts of another team that sits about 10 rows back, and subsequently being asked to sit down by said team). Then another, similar team comes up. So the people move back, as you're now sitting down. Quite aside from any people who have difficulty walking/standing, especially on stairs, you've inconvenienced them. They also don't get to see what you're cheering for, because they can't see around you. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be inspired by that...


flyingcrayons, I'd have to agree: The easiest solution would be to have a block of seats with good, clear vision of the field that is only for scouts, VIPs, and/or judges, which combination the block is for depending solely on venue. There is only one issue, and that is that some scouts will want to sit with their teams, or that the scouts are the large majority of the team in the stands, so the team wants to sit with the scouts.

Second easiest? An easy-access team cheering area near/on the floor. Keeps the cheering teams down low, mainly out of the direct line of sight of the scouts.


To the teams that like to stand through matches, talk to your scouts. What do they want? Would they prefer being in front of or behind your team during one of your matches? Then assume that most scouts will want that situation, and plan accordingly. If you don't have scouts of your own, borrow another team's for a few minutes on Thursday if you can to help you make the call. Also look into cheering sections on the floor.