Sitting down during matches

[Chief Pride]

In Atlanta I had told my team to sit down while we were on the field because I knew we were obstructing the view of the teams behind us. It was hard for them to remember as when they become a cadet, and in OCCRA it is one of the first things they learn. To always stand, and cheer on your drive team, give them encouragement.

That being said, I feel very sharply about this subject. I seem to go in the direct opposite direction, and feel that the name of this thread should be "Extremely rude statements made when asking a team to sit down". I was visiting a friend on another team when I overheard someone from a team behind them say something not only unGP, but something so terrible it cannot even be repeated in this thread without getting deleted almost immediately. It was along these lines:

[Team standing] if you do not sit down I'm going to ... r..e you

This is so unacceptable and I am very surprised that the team being abused did not take a much higher action against this... In my opinion, NO ONE has the right to say that to someone else, even if they are standing.

[Mrs.Drake343]

I am a little sensitive about this subject also. I love to stand up during our matches and have no problem with people standing up in front of me. I just deal with it. I admire kids who have lots of team spirit and want to show it off.

Now to the sensitive part, Last year a gentleman was upset with our team for standing and decided to "show us" by actually standing on the arms of the seats in front of us during one of our matches. Needless to say I had steam coming out of my ears I was so mad. I was very proud of our team for not saying anything to that guy.

As far as scouting, Our scouts have never complained about not being able to see (that I know of). They just go with the flow. If it is such a big problem and sitting lower in the stands is a problem, why not ask the Georgia Dome to open the next level to scouts only. As someone mentioned earlier, provide teams with passes and put a guard there to only let those with passes in that section.

I actually don't think I could physically sit down during one of our matches. I am so nervous that I think I would explode just sitting there. I also have two smaller children who have never complained about not being able to see. They just deal with it. But we do need to be aware of anyone with a disability that cannot stand. Make sure you never block their view. But the rest of us have two good legs and can make adjustments for the kids cheering on their robot.

[Jreed129]

I have mixed feelings about this to as many people here seem to have....

I did most of the video scouting for my team so trying to get footage while in the stands (no matter how high up you could get) wasn't always the best. Most of the time teams did take notice and try to stay out of the way but for the ones that didn't your team doesn't get scouted as well because we can not go back and look at matches and see what happened the night before selections. There are a lot of things going on at every competition it would be impossible to remember how teams do their first match, their last match and every match of the day.

As for my team, we stand for every match we are in. As long as I have been on the team it has been that way. Also I do not remember anyone on our team getting yelled at to sit down.

Personally I look at, I want to stand when my team is up and because of that I understand if you want to stand when your team is up. if I block your view I am sorry, if you block mine I do not mind, yes it is bother some, but nothing is going to get solved by yelling at you to move or sit down. It is a 5 minute time frame which I can't seen, but I can still guess at what is going on by your reactions to what you can see (i.e. you cheer = your alliance is doing good(scoring))

[soccerchapo12]

maybe the team should have a place for them to stand and cheer for their team just like in regionals this could keep people moving and showing thier support! this also helps too see your team up close
this means there would be a place to stand but also allow the other team to watch form the stands and also the only teams that can be there are those who are on the floor ready to play. this could make everyone happy.

[chetznutz]

No team ever won a team spirit award by sitting down ALL the time! Regardless of where you sit you should show you spirit by standing when your team is on the field. I have been mentoring for 14 years and teams have always stood when their machine is on the arena. I have been scouting for 8 or 9 years and the teams that stand and show their enthusiasum are not the annoying ones. The most irritating are the people who stand in the aisle talking or just looking around, or wiat until a match starts and then stand and fidget for 30 seconds then make everyone in the row stand to let them out!! Why not leave during the long period of inactivity between matches. Yes G.P. is important so is common courtesy----don't stand in the aisles during activity on the field---don't stop at the top or bottom of the stairs/escalator when everyone is trying to get to the toilet or get a drink and get back in time to see the next exciting match. Sorry, but standing to show your team spitit is NOT rude or obnoxious, however cursing at students and mentors of the so called offending team is. You know who you are and you shpould be ashamed not rewarded. Nuff said.

[Wayne C.]

An observation needs to be made here-

the Georgia Dome seats are not staged in a particularly steep way like they are in some of the arenas we play in. As a result instead of having a good view over the head of the person in front of you the view often barely reaches. So anyone standing for 6 rows below you in the line of sight of the field is essentially a wall and you see nothing on the field.

Since football action occurs way out on the field it is likely that in great plays everyone is standing- and I doubt they are scouting players from the stands.

The Philly venue seemed to have the nicest view of the field with the field in a pit below the start of the seats and a steep staircase to the levels.

[MrForbes]

Most regionals are played in smaller venues such as hockey/basketball arenas, but the Dome is a football field, and the FRC fields are located relatively close to the edges. Think about the geometry.....

I guess it really is a technical problem after all.

edit: I guess Wayne figured this out at the same time I did!

[sammyjalex]

Our team, Miss Daiy, stands and cheers with our alliance during elimination, but in the top of the stands during qualifications where we sit with our wheelchair-bound teammate. In this way we do not obstruct the views of others when they are scouting but do when they are not scouting. Is this reasonable? In both San Diego and Atlanta, for the first time I believe, our team was yelled at to sit down, please sit down, or quiet down. We calmly did our best to either sit to assuage the needs of others or shifted our group over a necessary amount, in these pivotal matches against 968 and 217. I would think that everyone would love to see this display of boisterous enthusiasm for the machine that we as a team built with our own two hands in 6 weeks and even moreso for science and technology itself, which is why these complaints and this thread had me confused. We believe the cheering really motivates our drivers so we try our best to lose our voices through screaming for our drivers and our alliances as a whole. We really enjoy cheering for each member of our alliance in elims with our alliance for an even greater sound.

I do believe Philly had steeper stands this year and also the front center section designated for scouting and media but only two were allowed for each team making the use of this space for an entire scouting team difficult.

Good luck with the resolution. I'd love to share with my team the proper etiquette.

Sam A.
Scout
Team 341 Miss Daisy
Wissahickon High School
Ambler, PA

[EricVanWyk]

Originally Posted by chetznutz

No team ever won a team spirit award by sitting down ALL the time!

Perhaps the spirit award needs to factor in the effect spirit has on other teams.

I've had similar problems with flag waving. I had one team in the front row waving a huge flag for the duration of their matches. Despite repeated "Excuse me, no one can see, please stop waving your flag here", those matches were still for their eyes only.

[Alivia]

Alright, this is obviously a heated discussion, as everyone has an opinion on the issue. So here's my $.02...

Teams who stand and scouters (or other general people who are not typically standing during the competition) need to BOTH compromise. Teams need to realize that while cheering during their match is fun and supportive, they are sometimes blocking the views of others. If asked to sit down, the teams should be kind and sit down or move somewhere else. However, the scouts (and other general people) should realize that sometimes a team doesn't mean to intentionally block other's views. Sometimes you just get caught up in the moment and ultimately forget what's going on around you--much like the drivers and human players on the field. If both groups would put themselves in the other's position, I think we could all be a little bit more understanding and reach an agreement that works for most.

As far as the comment earlier about how yelling "Sit down!" isn't un-GP, I tend to disagree. Yelling in such a manner is quite distasteful. Ask a person or team to sit down politely, explaining why you wish them to do so, and you'll yield way better results than resorting to a shouting match. Even if they still disregard your request (which is also un-GP, and a shame if it happens), this doesn't free you from the duty of remaining graciously professional yourself. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[OScubed]

Really, any team that is going to stand during matches needs to do so from behind where other teams are scouting and/or watching. If this is a requirement for your team spirit - go to the back of the pack and cheer from there. I agree with others that the only time the Drive team SEES you (rathe than HEARS YOU) is when they initially walk on the field. After that - they're too busy driving.

You CAN NOT scout with a team standing in front of you (and sometimes even individuals on teams) - especially if you are using laptops as our team does which really prevents us from standing while scouting. If you're going to be a "standing during the match team", no problem - but do it from where you will not block scouters, parents or members of other teams. We literally score and report on every ball thrown, moonrock scored, and empty cell delivered, and we're not the only ones who do a thorough scouting job. We can't do that with someone blocking the view. We share our data (and our collection system) with everyone, so it's not even as if we're doing it just competitively. You provide your team with a disadvantage at selection time if you're not in our stats because we couldn't see your match.

Scouting is unimportant for some and extremely important for others. When a team races through the crowd in the morning, literally pushing others out of the way (one of our mentors ended up literally being shoved into a garbage can by a running team member - you know who you are), proceed to grab seats in the front rows, and then stand during every match they are in, despite the polite (and eventually impolite) requests of those behind them, that is the ultimate in gracious un-professionalism.

There are numerous reasons not to stand during matches, not the least of which are that it blocks the views of parents and/or grandparents and guests, as well as those that are "Vertically challenged" or handicapped in some way who may not wish to or even be able to stand and sit during matches that the other team is in.

Stand and cheer as your robot comes on the field and when it is announced during the startup. Sit and cheer the rest of the time, or proceed to the back of the arena, or as the Bees did, find an area where you will not block others (an excellent compromise by the way). If someone asks you to sit (no matter whether they are gracious or not), the gracious and professional thing to do is sit. Period.

[Chris is me]

This is a particularly difficult problem because there's not really a GP way to tell a team to sit down.

Our team discussed this at a meeting and we all agreed to not stand up during any match unless people in front of them were blocking the view of our match or some other similar scenario. We also try to pick seating arrangements in front of teams we know don't stand up (or at least it worked out that way) or if we can on a balcony.

Basically the best thing you can really do is make a thread like this one and try to pass the word around to teams.

[Kmo]

I argee with Don. In the past when I was scotting many times we had a time right in front of us stand up during a match. Yes I understand that the match can get quite exciting but it wold be nice if they would quitly sit back down and allow the rest of the teams to scout.

We all know that scouting is very important during the FIRST competition and to lose some of that data due to interference is critical. I know if someone else was to ask our team to sit down we would do so just like we would want them to do the same for us.

This year the same thing happen. Even though I was on the drive team this year my team mates explain to me how difficult it was for them to see when the team in front of them wouldn't sit down. They asked if they could move to the side but none of them listen to him. Because of that they missed that one match.

So I have to say that I strongly agree with what Don is saying. We should be more considerate of others.

[Molten]

Perhaps we could have parts of the stands designated sitting only and others standing optional.

TO ALL SCOUTS: You are engineers. If you have a system that requires you to sit, and the situation requires you to stand...you need to adapt. Design a system that allows you to scout in a standing/sitting situation. Many teams scout while standing, it is very reasonable to figure out. I am in no way saying you should have to. I am just saying that this is more of the engineering spirit then to try change others. FIRST is about engineering, not politics.

[Matt Howard]

Originally Posted by Molten

TO ALL SCOUTS: You are engineers. If you have a system that requires you to sit, and the situation requires you to stand...you need to adapt. Design a system that allows you to scout in a standing/sitting situation. Many teams scout while standing, it is very reasonable to figure out. I am in no way saying you should have to. I am just saying that this is more of the engineering spirit then to try change others. FIRST is about engineering, not politics.

Well said.

Standing will always be a part of events like this. FIRST Events are held in Sporting Venues, Sports Arena's, Football Stadiums and the like. Places where standing, jumping and cheering are ENCOURAGED.

No matter how much people yell and moan about people standing during matches, it will never stop happening.

I understand that the original intention of the post was directed towards those who stand during entire matches, however during tough matches it's perfectly acceptable.

In Las Vegas, for the majority of the regional from what I observed, people were sitting in their seats observing matches. However, when Finals rolled around, The entire Red, as well as Blue Alliance spectators were on their feet cheering, the entire match.

I think it's fair to ask spectators to sit during qualification matches, but when high stakes matches roll around, I think it's perfectly acceptable for spectators to be on their feet, involved.

Just my .2