New CRIO in the KOP next year?

[sdcantrell56]

Originally Posted by Cory

That would be awesome...But what are the odds of FIRST actually charging us less when we receive a lesser product, instead of just continuing to charge us the full cost for less?

Im with you whole heartedly on this Cory. We purchased a complete system at the beginning of this season so that we can always have 2 robots up and running. Now if FIRST does not include a control system next year in the KOP, the entry fee better be reduced. I along with, I believe, many people are already slightly leary about the finances of FIRST and this would just solidify things in my mind. From what Dean said, NI donated all of the systems so I don't see what we would be paying for next season if we dont get another system. I am completely ok with reusing the CRio, but please FIRST, reduce the already high entry fee. I guess it would also be nice if FIRST offered a KOP without a lot of the parts that many teams end up not using like the kitbot. That should be fairly easy since I believe the kit bot is in a separate box than the other crates. I guess after seeing that FIRST can be run cheaper from the michigan district format, I don't really understand why all teams can't have reduced entry fees.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Cory

That would be awesome...But what are the odds of FIRST actually charging us less when we receive a lesser product, instead of just continuing to charge us the full cost for less?

Somewhere around being struck by lightning 4 times in a row.

[flyingcrayons]

i certainly do hope that a new cRIO is included, or we can buy one for a discount. 1089's broke during CMP's, and we are currently borrowing the one 2590 won in the raffle. funnily, that cRIO has the signatures of the president and founders of N/I, and its sitting in our robot...

thx to 2590 for that, and i really hope we can find one soon so we can return it to you...

[AndyB]

As far as I know, everything will be included in the kit of parts except for the cRIO. That was what was originally announced I believe through the WPI FAQ.

Q Will I get a new controller in each year’s kit?
A Because of the ruggedness of CompactRIO, teams will be able to reuse their controller in competition years beyond 2009. However FIRST may decide to introduce new cRIO modules to the system and other restrictions or allowances may be made specific to future year game designs.

http://first.wpi.edu/Images/CMS/Firs...nical_Rev4.pdf
(Last question)

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by flyingcrayons

i certainly do hope that a new cRIO is included, or we can buy one for a discount. 1089's broke during CMP's, and we are currently borrowing the one 2590 won in the raffle. funnily, that cRIO has the signatures of the president and founders of N/I, and its sitting in our robot...

thx to 2590 for that, and i really hope we can find one soon so we can return it to you...

If your cRIO is broken you should be able to send it into NI to get it replaced/repaired. I know I've seen contact info around somewhere, but I don't recall where.

[Nate Smith]

Based on this post on Bill's Blog about reusing components from the new control system, it appears that there are plans to reuse the cRIO and some other components from year to year. I remember seeing somewhere later about a plan for every other year to get a new cRIO, but that may have been someone's idea and not an official announcement.

That being said, there have been the DS issues this year that are getting teams a new DS for next season. What effect this will have on the rest of the system being used remains to be seen...

[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

If leaving the cRio out of the KoP allows FIRST to reduce entry fees by $750 (the discounted price of a replacement cRio) then teams would have the option to either pay $6,000 and get a new cRio, or pay $5,250 and re-use their old one.

If FIRST makes replacing the entire control system optional, then entry fees, perhaps could be reduced by even more than the $750 discounted cost of the cRio...

Originally Posted by Cory

That would be awesome...But what are the odds of FIRST actually charging us less when we receive a lesser product, instead of just continuing to charge us the full cost for less?

Well, if I was a gambling man I would bet a HEFTY sum that we will NOT get another cRIO next year, AND that the registration/kit "price" will also NOT be reduced ...

Originally Posted by sdcantrell56

Im with you whole heartedly on this Cory. We purchased a complete system at the beginning of this season so that we can always have 2 robots up and running. Now if FIRST does not include a control system next year in the KOP, the entry fee better be reduced. I along with, I believe, many people are already slightly leary about the finances of FIRST and this would just solidify things in my mind. From what Dean said, NI donated all of the systems so I don't see what we would be paying for next season if we dont get another system...

I wholeheartedly agree on the questionable FIRST finances concern. I think there needs to be much more DETAILED transparency (or maybe I just need to do a bit more research).

And, if the fact that the original KOP cRIOs were 100% donated should make a difference in next years team fees, then why were the fees not reduced this year??

[MrForbes]

I've had it in the back of my mind all season that we would not get a new cRio next year.

As to the KoP price vs. what's in it....I've never been bothered by the robot parts cost, it's relatively trivial compared to what we spend on travel. Yes, I'm involved in fundraising for the team.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by squirrel

I've had it in the back of my mind all season that we would not get a new cRio next year.

As to the KoP price vs. what's in it....I've never been bothered by the robot parts cost, it's relatively trivial compared to what we spend on travel. Yes, I'm involved in fundraising for the team.

For one team it may be trivial but when you multiply it by 1700 it can become a decent chunk of money. And, as a team that doesn't spend money on travel expenses, the KOP is the most expensive thing we buy. Knock some money off that and it would be appreciated.

[MrForbes]

Then you should consider yourselves fortunate

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Don't quote me but it seems I heard a rumor that NI was working on a stripped down (less $$$) version for the future. I would really like to see some imbedded analog and digital modules if some enterprising company would like a project. I don't have anything against the current hardware, just would like to miniaturize and simplify the hardware for rookies.

They actually had a much cost reduced version on display at the booth so it isn't a rumor.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by Taylor

I would certainly hope that every year's KOP comes with a complete control system. Many new and/or struggling teams use their old robots in exhibitions and fundraisers. Having only one control system total would severely hamper the ability of teams to venture out into their communities and gain support.

I'm betting if it were possible to do a hard core analysis of the full life cycle of the control components for all teams in the system there would be an annoying waste of material. The disposition of robots for probably 70%+ of the teams is probably negative.

Teams that do maintain 'showbots' have to make a business case to provide support to maintain the showbots. I think that is going to have to be the case going forward.

It has been a little bit of a peeve of mine with how some teams are not properly regarding the value of the KOP and the robot they build from it. Teams should regard their bot as a "capital asset" and treat it accordingly.

So for us that means maintaining the machines and in some cases rebuilding aspects to make it more "show ready". And that takes time and money.

Put it in your business plan and go from there. It is the same thing all businesses have to do and FIRST is a GREAT training ground for solving these types of problems.

[oddjob]

Originally Posted by ebarker

They actually had a much cost reduced version on display at the booth so it isn't a rumor.

If it's a lot smaller and lighter, that's a big advantage. The cRIO is a boat anchor and not well suited to a size and weight limited robot where inches and ounces are precious.

[Phil Ross]

Originally Posted by Foster

We also face the need to take demo robots out on tour, and it is a shame to have $3K street value of electronics sitting idle for most of the year or from year to year.

Maybe a solution to your problem is using the cheaper old control system on your demo bot. Put the old IFI controls and electronics on it and use the electronics from NI for your competition bot. Unless you are going to use the old bot for off-seasons it doesn't need to be competition legal for demos.

Also, if buying IFI controls is an issue I'm sure you have some sitting around from previous years that you can use.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by oddjob

If it's a lot smaller and lighter, that's a big advantage. The cRIO is a boat anchor and not well suited to a size and weight limited robot where inches and ounces are precious.

I have trouble considering it to be a boat anchor...I have too much old tube gear laying around

The cRio does have an interesting design, not quite how I would do it, but it takes up far less real estate on our electronics board than the power distribution and speed controllers do, as usual. We took the time to figure out how to mount the cRio down low, with the connections easily accessible, and it really wasn't a size/weight issue at all.