FIRST is missing out

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Posted by Dan at 04/27/2001 10:09 PM EST


Other on team - from Carnegie Mellon sponsored by -.


In Reply to: Re: I see it MUCH differently
Posted by Chris Orimoto on 04/27/2001 2:21 AM EST:



OK, here's more of this "pro-BattleBots" nonsense. I hope people are reading this and I hope to continue these discussions. I think there are a lot of misconceptions and I'd rather talk about them then sweep it under. This issue is only going to become more imminent.

1. Robots are very often made by teams.
2. The teams very often work with companies to make their robot. Most sponsors are considered part of the team, they are experts in their respective field and they give feedback on the design. Same as FIRST. I'm talking to some companies right now; they're really enthused about being a part of a team and we're developing a relationship. Just like FIRST.
3. I have met TONS of people from around the country with similar interests doing BattleBots & Robotica. These guys are my competitors but they taught me everything I've needed in the last 3 years. There is a mutual trust between builders that is pretty amazing; some of these guys have mailed me $200 parts before I've even paid because they know I need it ASAP. I'm also hosting 2 of the toughest opponents in my weight class at my house during the competition. It's nothin but love in BattleBots. You have NO IDEA how strong and supportive the BattleBots community is. BattleBots is not a competition to us, it's like show & tell. We all want to come in with a cool robot.
4. Anyone can build a BattleBot, but it takes a huge amount of motivation. But what's wrong with that? I mean BattleBots isn't about being elitist--is FIRST? That's half the fun of it too. People love seeing the teenager versus the professional engineer, that's awesome.

As for your last comment: "how can ANYONE compare FIRST to Battlebots...take out the 'building of the robot' part and their two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS!"
I think you just *did* compare them, so I don't understand but I agree with the statement.
As for Robotica; please, do start. But understand that:
A) it is a TV show, not a competition
B) the competitors were chosen for their background not their skill
C) we only had a month to build
D) most people didn't have anywhere near the resources of an average FIRST team
E) Ahmet Zappa is cool, regardless of what everyone says. He's not crazy, just wacky.

Oiy-kay
Dan

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Posted by William Swanson at 04/26/2001 5:07 PM EST


Coach on team #353, POBOTS, from Mattlin Middle School.


In Reply to: FIRST is missing out
Posted by Joe on 04/26/2001 1:25 AM EST:



No.1: Battle bots do not have 500-600 teams from around the country competing.
No.2: The teams that run battle bots range from 1-4 people. Our team is currently at 35 and heading up.
No.3: Battle bots get kids interested in technology, science and engineering. They cannot handle the no. of kids that FIRST can. So battle bots and robotica aregood for us. It keeps kids interested.
No.4: We don't need the exposure through media that does not want to cover us. Our large corporations and sponsors get the word through parents, teachers, and students. This is the coverage we want. Show the corp., sponsors, and organizations that our students are excited about engineering, science and technology. Show these people that we can and will change the world whether it is covered in print, video or on TV. Whats important is that some of the kids are getting that message.
These 4 things are what is important and if these shows help to get the message out, all is good. We must also teach our kids that these techie things can be done without the violence. I don't think FIRST is missing anything, I think we are growing and will continue to grow. Thats all I have to say.

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Posted by Mike Soukup at 04/26/2001 7:07 PM EST


Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling and Motorola.


In Reply to: Re: FIRST is missing out
Posted by William Swanson on 04/26/2001 5:07 PM EST:



: No.1: Battle bots do not have 500-600 teams from around the country competing.

Not true. From battlebots.com: "ALERT: Over 650 robots have signed up for the May 2001 Competition!"

I'm not trying to argue about your points, just getting the facts straight.

Mike

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Posted by Dan at 04/26/2001 8:36 PM EST


Other on team - from Carnegie Mellon sponsored by -.


In Reply to: Re: FIRST is missing out
Posted by William Swanson on 04/26/2001 5:07 PM EST:



Check it out for yourself, www.battlebots.com . 650 teams registered, very few will make it to television. That's over 300% growth since the last competition.
Dan

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Posted by Kevin Sevcik at 04/26/2001 5:45 PM EST


College Student on team #57, Leopards, from BT Washington and the High School for Engineering Professions and Exxon, Kellog Brown & Root, Powell Electrical.


In Reply to: FIRST is missing out
Posted by Joe on 04/26/2001 1:25 AM EST:



Alright, about half of this will probably be restating other peoples posts, but I like to hear myself talk. On with the show...

First and foremost, I think FIRST does a LOT more to reach kids and get them interested in science and engineering. With Battle Bots or Robotica, you might be reaching a huge audience, but it's for 30min-1hour each week with commercials. Plus, it's TV. Do you really think there are that many kids watching it who actually WILL go out, get money and materials, and build a bot? I'm doubting this. With FIRST, we're reaching an audience of about 10,000-15,000 (yes I'm bad at estimating). But, this much smaller group of kids is getting 6-10 weeks of 15+ hours of hands on, in your face inspiration and experience. And frankly, FIRST is always going to be bigger than BattleBots. A small BattleBots team isn't likely to garner corporate sponsorship. Especially a beginning one. So there just plain won't be as many people who can get into the competition.

My main point here, though, is that FIRST doesn't NEED national media coverage. We've gotten this far without it, haven't we? We don't need the media to get schools interested in this, and we don't need it to get corporation interested either. I think the fundamental problem here is that some of us are lazy. The way I see it, FIRST is supposed to be one very large pyramid scheme. One team recruits two teams. Those two teams recruit two more. And so on until we've got a team in every school we can reach. The problem here is that that requires work. We and FIRST can't just sit around and wait for the sponsors and teams to roll in. We've got to go out and get them. We don't need coverage to get teams and sponsors. It'd be nice, but it's not necessary. All we need to do is go out and start recruiting. I guarantee you that if you tell a corporation how big FIRST is and what it does, they'll be happy to sponsor a team. If you don't believe me, I'll direct you to my mom, and she can tell you about getting companies to sponsor regionals and getting sponsors for all the new teams that popped up in Houston.

Anyways sorry about the huge post. I always seem to get carried away...

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Posted by Erin at 04/27/2001 10:32 AM EST


College Student on team #65, Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: FIRST is missing out
Posted by Joe on 04/26/2001 1:25 AM EST:



I see some of your posts down there...
Why are you getting so upset about Battlebots?
Battlebots is good.. Battlebots is bad...the issue is ridiculous.
You can learn from Battlebots, you can learn from FIRST, you can learn from Robotica...geez!
You can learn from your discussions that maybe this is going too far!
Maybe we should just realize that Battlebots and FIRST and in two totally different categories.

HOCKEY AND CURLING ARE BOTH PLAYED ON ICE BUT DOES THAT PUT THEM IN THE SAME CLASS?

Battlebots is Battlebots and FIRST is FIRST, and whatever we like better is best for us.

Keep your opinions and don't force them on others.

Thanks.
Erin

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Posted by Andy Baker at 04/27/2001 11:27 AM EST


Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: Woah boys, calm down.
Posted by Erin on 04/27/2001 10:32 AM EST:



I just hope my daughters grow up to be like you, Erin!

You are right on... these guys are making too much of this issue.

Andy B.

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Posted by Bill Gold at 04/27/2001 12:44 PM EST


Student on team #258, The Sea Dawgs, from Lincoln High and KPC&B, Applied Materials, SJUSD, and Mr. Stokely.


In Reply to: Erin, once again, is wise beyond her years!
Posted by Andy Baker on 04/27/2001 11:27 AM EST:



: I just hope my daughters grow up to be like you, Erin!

: You are right on... these guys are making too much of this issue.

: Andy B.

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Posted by Paul Copioli at 04/27/2001 12:36 PM EST


Engineer on team #217, Team Macomb - Royal Fusion, from Utica Schools, Fraser Schools, Warren Cons. School and Ford Motor Company.


In Reply to: Woah boys, calm down.
Posted by Erin on 04/27/2001 10:32 AM EST:



Erin,

I couldn't agree with you more, that is why you don't see any posts from me about the whole battlebots subject.... well, until this one. One thing that does disturb me a bit: I just finished reading the latest "Design News" magazine (April 23, 2001)and what is on the cover? You guessed it: Battlebots. I don't pay too much attention the media in general, but when an engineering design magazine FEATURES battlebots (including robot profiles)..... you get the picture. Anyway, I will do my part to see if we can get some of those "Design News" writers to do a story on FIRST robots just to stir up the pot a little.

-Paul


P.S. I am also designing a Battle Bot to compete in future bouts (with the help of some of the students on 217).

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Posted by Jason Iannuzzi at 04/27/2001 3:09 PM EST


Engineer on team #11, Marauders, from Mt. Olive HS. and BASF, Rame Hart, CCM.


In Reply to: Re: Woah boys, calm down.
Posted by Paul Copioli on 04/27/2001 12:36 PM EST:



Did you happen to read the article about Battle Bots?

The three machines for which they have profiles would fall into the category of "hardcore" design. Those guys do a great job and we'd be foolish not to learn a thing or two about battle bots.

Previously, I had a high amount of intolerance for battle bots, but I'm starting to have more and more respect for machines. The event is still goofy, the machines are top notch.

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Posted by Paul Copioli at 04/27/2001 5:08 PM EST


Engineer on team #217, Team Macomb - Royal Fusion, from Utica Schools, Fraser Schools, Warren Cons. School and Ford Motor Company.


In Reply to: Design News
Posted by Jason Iannuzzi on 04/27/2001 3:09 PM EST:



: Did you happen to read the article about Battle Bots?

Yes. And they are great. (For those who don't know what EOM means)

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Posted by Ryan Patridge at 04/27/2001 3:10 PM EST


Engineer on team #111, WildStang, from Rolling Meadows / Wheeling HS and Motorola.


In Reply to: Woah boys, calm down.
Posted by Erin on 04/27/2001 10:32 AM EST:



: Keep your opinions and don't force them on others.

: Thanks.
: Erin


What was that again? Is this an opinion, an ultimatum, or just a statement? Luckily I don't feel like you're forcing it on me, since this is just a discussion forum...

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Posted by Erin at 04/27/2001 3:17 PM EST


College Student on team #65, Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: LOL
Posted by Ryan Patridge on 04/27/2001 3:10 PM EST:



didn't think so.