Go to Post It's a good things we're engineers who regularly squeeze out 'miracles' with a severely limited budget, eh? I think that's an important aspect that we as mentors need to show the students from time to time, and this year is a perfect opportunity. - JesseK [more]
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Unread 11-05-2009, 23:24
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Re: Lunacy = Greatest Game Ever

Man I have a bad habit of making mistaken posts that get corrected by you, huh :/

Well, my point is more along the lines of "it's part of the game so by trigerring it, you're _not_ playing well regardless if you want to be or not".
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Unread 11-05-2009, 23:44
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Re: Lunacy = Greatest Game Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
Man I have a bad habit of making mistaken posts that get corrected by you, huh :/

Well, my point is more along the lines of "it's part of the game so by trigerring it, you're _not_ playing well regardless if you want to be or not".
I believe this is only the 1st time I 'corrected' you as the first time was more of a difference of opinion....I could be wrong though.

Anyway, I see your point. A team complaining about having a G-14 against them is like saying a certian football team 'would be amazing, if they had a quarterback'. In both examples, the teams brought the disadvantage on themselves (Scoring more than 2X their opponent and not signing Garcia in 2006).

In my opinion G-14 has been way over-blown. What percentage of matches were really determined by it? How much did it really prevent FIRST from achieving its goals?
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Unread 12-05-2009, 00:42
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
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Re: Lunacy = Greatest Game Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by XaulZan11 View Post
In my opinion G-14 has been way over-blown. What percentage of matches were really determined by it? How much did it really prevent FIRST from achieving its goals?
I cannot give you that data but I can show you how many matches caused a G14 to be called. From here you can determine if it is even worth looking at its affect.

I have attached 5 images (apparently you can only attach 5 files to a post, go figure) They are just some quick little graphics I tossed together. Each circle represents a match on the specified field. A red circle is a red win and a blue circle is a blue win. The intensity of the circles show how much the win was by, an intense blue means blue blew out red. A green dot denotes that a g14 penalty was assessed against the winning team (based purely on score, I assumed penalties were nonexistent just for the sake of having a quick program.)

Look at the occurrence of green dots and decide if G14 even had enough of an impact to warrant discussion. (And remember, they are just dots)

(I do have an image generated for all the regionals, these are based on the FRCFMS data so your mileage may vary, and these are available should anyone want them.)

EDIT: Anyone who has any suggestions on how to make the images more useful feel free to PM me.
Attached Thumbnails
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Unread 12-05-2009, 08:56
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Re: Lunacy = Greatest Game Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by XaulZan11 View Post
In my opinion G-14 has been way over-blown. What percentage of matches were really determined by it? How much did it really prevent FIRST from achieving its goals?
This is a really good point. Our team has activated the rule 2 or 3 times, and every time we were in a position to get a G14, we had an alliance of high scoring robots, and we weren't using the Supercell anyway. There was a minor "uh oh we did too good" psychological effect, I guess?

I can count the number of matches on one hand that I saw where 4 Empty Cells were converted. And if you were a team like 1986 (or occasionally 217) that lived and breathed the empty cell, matches were generally close enough that you would know that you don't need to throw a Supercell, as 1/3rd of your scoring is dedicated to... not scoring. At the same time, you really wouldn't need the Super Cell in matches that the opponent scored less than 35 / 40 points in unless it was obviously close enough to matter (say, only HPs scored the whole time). And once your opponent has 40 or so points, the RT scoring is decent enough that if it's showing a 25-30 point lead, you'll (probably) win without throwing an empty cell.
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Unread 12-05-2009, 09:17
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Re: Lunacy = Greatest Game Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
This is a really good point. Our team has activated the rule 2 or 3 times, and every time we were in a position to get a G14, we had an alliance of high scoring robots, and we weren't using the Supercell anyway. There was a minor "uh oh we did too good" psychological effect, I guess?
I'm slightly confused by your post. While I do not really agree with G14, I understand why the rule exists. However, the post you quoted in your response is referring to how many times G14 actually had a play in a match. G14 would be affecting the match after you "activated" the rule...not during.

I don't think its many, but it is also impossible to say what might have happened if...

Just clearing that up, please correct me if I am misinterpreting what you are saying.
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Unread 12-05-2009, 12:33
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Re: Lunacy = Greatest Game Ever

I mean Lunacy was fun, but best game ever??
my vote goes to overdrive.
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Unread 12-05-2009, 13:26
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Re: Lunacy = Greatest Game Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Holley View Post
I'm slightly confused by your post. While I do not really agree with G14, I understand why the rule exists. However, the post you quoted in your response is referring to how many times G14 actually had a play in a match. G14 would be affecting the match after you "activated" the rule...not during.
What I meant was if we were doing well enough at a regional to activate G14, we weren't converting empty cells. Empty cells have been our team's "backup plan".

The other point was that if you convert empty cells you usually have a better gauge of the match score
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