TIME magazine Lists the Segway as "Top Ten worst Tech failures..."

[Chris Hibner]

Originally Posted by hillale

At one point in time, this list would have included the Edsel. It seems to be a list of technologies that are floundering on a different front than that of development, be it sales or advertising.

I think most people are misinterpreting the title of the article. The article isn't about technological failures as much as it is about tech PRODUCTS that have failed in a business sense.

[artdutra04]

Segway's failure to live up to expectations can be attributed to three reasons: over-hyped product release, high cost, and politicians/NIMBYs afraid of change.

- Over-hyped product release. I'm not going to lie, back in 2001 when we kept hearing about "IT" and how it would revolutionize society, it lead me to believe they invented either cold fusion or time travel. Sadly when that sheet was lifted, there was no flying DeLorean.

- From the hundreds (possibly thousands?) of people I've talked to while on my Segway, they are all really interested until they learn it costs $5k. If the price was half that, the potential market share of Segway would explode. Or if there was some kind of leasing program to lease Segways for two or three years, then sell them at $1k-$2k, they'd see huge market share growth.

- And last, the politicians and NIMBYs afraid of change. Too many cities banned Segways, claiming they were a huge liability, and that crazy people flying down sidewalks will run you over and steal your baby and eat your dog and all kinds of FUD tactics. Some brought up obscure laws from the early 20th century, which claimed that all motorized vehicles have to have physical brakes, which they claimed made disc brakes legal but dynamic braking not. If citizens were afraid of people on Segways going 12.5mph on sidewalks, a better solution would have been to make a law prohibiting them from going beyond 6mph on sidewalks (light jogging speed). Laws that just outright ban Segways because the potential exists for someone to get hurt are like the cities and towns at the beginning of the 20th century which banned automobiles because they might run into a trolley car or spook the horses. It's better to teach someone responsibility than to outright ban it.

But all said and done, I don't think Segway is over by a long shot. If able to be sold at relatively cheap prices, Neighborhood Electric Vehicles look to be an up-and-coming thing for the coming decades, especially by municipal services, utilities, postal service, etc. If so, then the rising tide will lift all boats in the electric transportation market.

[Burmeister #279]

(sorry if this has already been mentioned because i skipped all the posts so i could say this before i leave)

I don't know if this poll was done online but if so, it can't be trusted. online polls can be voted on by anyone anywhere as many times as they want, as evidenced by the creater of the literal garbage can/black hole of the internet being voted as the number one most influential person over every legitimate leader, due to online voting. Time magazine polls are definately [[[generally]]] untrustworthy.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Burmeister #279

(sorry if this has already been mentioned because i skipped all the posts so i could say this before i leave)

I don't know if this poll was done online but if so, it can't be trusted. online polls can be voted on by anyone anywhere as many times as they want, as evidenced by the creater of the literal garbage can/black hole of the internet being voted as the number one most influential person over every legitimate leader, due to online voting. Time magazine polls are definately [[[generally]]] untrustworthy.

The best way to find that out would to be, READING THE ARTICLE before randomly posting speculation.

Originally Posted by TIME Article

24/7 Wall St. looked at both start-ups and products introduced by companies that did not survive to create a list of the most colossal tech failures of the last decade.

Honestly, how few people in this thread seem to have bothered to actually read the article is a little bit disgusting.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

I think most people are misinterpreting the title of the article. The article isn't about technological failures as much as it is about tech PRODUCTS that have failed in a business sense.

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

The best way to find that out would to be, READING THE ARTICLE before randomly posting speculation. ....

Originally Posted by Time Article by Douglas A. McIntyre

To make the list, a product had to be widely recognized and widely available to customers. It had to be aimed at a large global market. It had to be technologically equal to or superior to its competition. It had to be a product or new company that had the possibility of bringing in billions of dollars in revenue based on the sales of similar or competing products. Finally, it had to clearly miss the mark of living up to the potential that its creators expected, and that the public and press were lead to believe was possible.

To geeks (like me) for whom geekiness is its own reward, there is no such thing as a technological failure. Trying a new technology can yield expected results, or unexpected results. Either way, the geek wins -- and receives either a nod of approval, or an opportunity to learn something new.

To an entrepreneur (like John Doerr) who seeks opportunities to grow new ventures, success is measured by financial sustainability -- return on the investment, which in turn enables further opportunities, and so on. By that measure the examples on the Time article's list are failures. And they are lessons.

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by big1boom

Last I checked, Vista is commonplace, Gateway sells lots of computers (I have one), Vonage has enough money to advertise, YouTube is everywhere, Sirius XM is installed in cars, my roommate has a Zune, a few people have Palm's..

[AdamHeard]

A business sense is something many engineers should, but probably will never, learn.

Many engineers would love to leave their corporate jobs to start a company that sells products geared towards FIRST teams, and use this as a platform to launch into other markets, but most would fail. Andy Baker was able to do it, which shows he has that business sense that is lost on most engineers.

It's almost sad how bad some of the engineers are, in my years of interning, I worked with some that seemed to really have no concept of how to do business.

[JesseK]

With the way the article rates everything, I'm surprised that something like the MacBook, or actually most of Apple's computer product line, isn't on there. Apple doesn't necessarily bleed cash because of their products, but they come close due to the extremely low market share and a continuously mediocre product (and the only thing they're doing is throwing cash at it via advertising...worst idea ever...).

I somewhat agree with Adam for the business perspective in new technologies. I think the overall article, not just the one that's about the Segway, does emphasize a good point in engineering -- anything that's engineered without a pre-determined need becomes a risk in the market. This is why engineers of consumer products need more than just a good product design in order for the product to be successful. Yet companies cannot be narrow-minded and reactive to a market, as stagnation in a company's product innovation will inevitably lead to its downfall.

There is hope though, because there can be ALOT of product failures before the ONE golden egg that more than makes up for the failures (like Apple's iPhone/iPod & Store). Hence, usually companies have a business model that accounts for the risk of a new technology product. If the product is truly unsuccessful and they were way off target in the initial market analysis, the company eats the cost and retains the intellectual property to license it out in future years.

Like a modern day DaVinci scenario, sometimes the world just isn't ready for the technology yet. When we're all on gigantic spaceships cruising around the galaxy, the Segway will be the greatest thing since sliced bread

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

A business sense is something many engineers should, but probably will never, learn.

Many engineers would love to leave their corporate jobs to start a company that sells products geared towards FIRST teams, and use this as a platform to launch into other markets, but most would fail. Andy Baker was able to do it, which shows he has that business sense that is lost on most engineers.

It's almost sad how bad some of the engineers are, in my years of interning, I worked with some that seemed to really have no concept of how to do business.

It is my opinion that AndyMark is setting a standard and acting as a role model for business sense and applying the wisdom gained. It could be that we have arrived at a point to explore this and the impact that the members of the FIRST community can have on the future dreams of business owners and corporations by role modeling as business owners and entrepreneurs, developing and implementing the concepts that are lacking, therefore, creating opportunity for failure.

Many FIRSTers have no problem posting opinions in ChiefDelphi regarding different aspects of team development and practical applications to be used during build. There may be a time fast approaching for the need for mentoring and sharing practical applications and career development as business owners and entrepreneurs. It is identifying itself as a need.

At some point, I can see a recognition of some sort being developed to acknowledge the successful achievements of mentors, alumni, and perhaps, students - who have plowed the row, mentored, shared valuable lessons, training, and philosophies in succeeding in the area of business and entrepreneurship. AndyMark is paving the way for those who are paying attention and looking to the future of great possibilities.

.02
Jane

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

It is my opinion that AndyMark is setting a standard and acting as a role model for business sense and applying the wisdom gained. It could be that we have arrived at a point to explore this and the impact that the members of the FIRST community can have on the future dreams of business owners and corporations by role modeling as business owners and entrepreneurs, developing and implementing the concepts that are lacking, therefore, creating opportunity for failure.

And don't forget what Tony Norman and Bob Mimlich have done with Innovation First (IFI). FIRST ran on IFI electronics and other parts for years, and their VEX product line is now serving a rapidly-growing youth community. IFI employees and sponsorship still support a number of FRC teams.

[Adam Y.]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

Then I read the reason WHY it is considered a failure: it is losing $470 million dollars PER YEAR!! Google paid $1.65 Billion (with a B) for it, and it has no real chance of ever making back that money. YouTube needs to TRIPLE it's income, just to cover operating costs! I don't know about you, but that sounds to me like it's failing. It may be awesome, but it can't bleed cash like that and be called a success.

Well if we go by that criteria every single video host is a complete and utter failure.

[Cory]

I don't understand the outrage here. When I saw the overview on the first page here I thought the list was a little ridiculous (Youtube? Top 10 worst tech failure? Seriously?)

Then I read the article and realized that it's talking about these things being failures from a financial standpoint. When you look at it from that view, everything on the list makes sense.

So are Youtube/the Segway a failure? Sure, if you're looking at it from a purely fiscal point of view. Are they actual failures when related to technology? Clearly not. Youtube is ubiquitous in daily life, and the Segway is a very cool piece of engineering.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by big1boom

Well... seeing as the rest of the 10 biggest tech failures are
Windows Vista
Gateway
HD DVD
Vonage
YouTube
Sirius XM
Microsoft Zune
Palm
Iridium
Segway

Last I checked, Vista is commonplace, Gateway sells lots of computers (I have one), Vonage has enough money to advertise, YouTube is everywhere, Sirius XM is installed in cars, my roommate has a Zune, a few people have Palm's..

So I wouldn't really consider this list the be the most credible...

I would count is as a credible list - and from exactly Cory's standpoint up above. Purely financial terms.

But let me pose this question to you all:
What difference does Segway have than every other product on the list?
No real competition.
I think we can all name some other competing product in every one of those product's fields that are more popular (and thus more profitable) on that list.

Can you do the same with Segway?
What is equal in a consumer product to a Segway at this point in time?
Who is Segway's major rival?
When you have a unique product, you would love to see your product thrive, but you don't mind if it doesn't since you have the market cornered.
Now whether or not it's a good market to be in, is of another discussion.

We all know that in terms of popularity & other attributes that:
Windows Xp > Windows Vista (MicroSoft is esentially competing with themselves, so who's losing that one overall?? No one really) lol
Dell > Gateway (in terms of sales)
Blueray > HD DVD (the clear winner was BlueRay)
Skype > Vonage
HULU > YouTube (sometimes)
iPod > Microsoft Zune (by leaps & bounds admittedly (I myself own 2 Zunes & 1 iPod & can admit that one)
Blackberry or iPhone > Palm (today, but not 10 years ago - if you were anything of a tech savy person, you had a Palm Pilot back in the day)

etc, etc...

But what company or product over-powered Segway in the market of providing the consumer a self balancing (electro-mechanical) people transporter?
(Bicycles & other human powered machines don't really count, nor compare for this in-depth of a comparison btw...)

The answer is nothing compares, nor competes with it currently.
So it's ridiculous to even put Segway on the list in my opinion.


By the way, does anyone know TIME's historical standpoint on the Segway?
I know an "independent" research company conducted the study, but that doesn't mean TIME has the last say as to what to publish.
Has TIME magazine embraced the Segway over the years, or shunned it, & thus had other motives for putting it on the list with no fair competition so to speak of.
Just wondering...

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by JesseK

With the way the article rates everything, I'm surprised that something like the MacBook, or actually most of Apple's computer product line, isn't on there. Apple doesn't necessarily bleed cash because of their products, but they come close due to the extremely low market share and a continuously mediocre product (and the only thing they're doing is throwing cash at it via advertising...worst idea ever...).

I think the fact that Apple has the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 9th, and 24th most popular laptops on Amazon begs to differ.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/565108

And the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 8th, 9th, 12th, 16th, 18th, and 23rd most popular desktops.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...f=pd_ts_pc_nav

While the "market share" (there are a number of flaws with that statistic) is less than 10%, Apple's "dollar share" is nearly 35% of the laptop market and 25% of the total PC market.

[Adam Y.]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

HULU > YouTube (sometimes)

It is a bit odd to be comparing HULU to YouTube when YouTube was designed to do things that HULU will never do. Most of the video services that are comparable to YouTube are floundering just the same.