Did Lunacy really level the playing field?

[Jon Jack]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

The reason that there was a rim of carpet around the field was to get out of pins. Robots could be designed to get out of pins (stuff like swerve and a generally powerful drivetrain helps, which indeed did benefit the veterans who had them, but even that wasn't necessary and some veterans dropped swerve this year). Pinning was an issue that the GDC couldn't make more obvious was going to be a big part of the game, and teams that designed robots and strategies to get around rudimentary defense would win, big.

I don't see how relying on your alliance partners is a flaw for this competition at all. It's a team event intentionally; picking your team correctly is the difference between being a winning team and having a quality alliance upset in Round 1.

18" of carpet is not enough carpet to give a pinned team any kind of traction advantage. Look at how many 'shut down' pins there were this year. It's not like the drivers just simply let go of the controls and said 'oh well, we're done'.

Really, there was only so much torque you could put into these wheels before you slipped (Here is a simple lesson on why). So I don't know how much having a 'powerful drivetrain' helped. Having a swerve didn't help that much with pinning either. I've seen several swerve drives get shoved in a corner and shut down. The one thing a swerve did help with was strafing left and right to follow a goal or break from a potential pin before the pin occurs (exampe, 111, 1717).

When it comes to relying on alliance partners, I was referring to qualification matches (the elims are a different situation). This is a team sport, alliances need to work together. However having a partner no-show or die in the middle of the match should never seal a victory for the other alliance. I've lost track of how many matches I've watched with no-show/dead robots this year. Out of those matches I saw two, maybe three matches all year where the under-manned alliance pulled off a victory.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Jon Jack

18" of carpet is not enough carpet to give a pinned team any kind of traction advantage. Look at how many 'shut down' pins there were this year. It's not like the drivers just simply let go of the controls and said 'oh well, we're done'.

Really, there was only so much torque you could put into these wheels before you slipped (Here is a simple lesson on why). So I don't know how much having a 'powerful drivetrain' helped. Having a swerve didn't help that much with pinning either. I've seen several swerve drives get shoved in a corner and shut down. The one thing a swerve did help with was strafing left and right to follow a goal or break from a potential pin before the pin occurs (exampe, 111, 1717).

When it comes to relying on alliance partners, I was referring to qualification matches (the elims are a different situation). This is a team sport, alliances need to work together. However having a partner no-show or die in the middle of the match should never seal a victory for the other alliance. I've lost track of how many matches I've watched with no-show/dead robots this year. Out of those matches I saw two, maybe three matches all year where the under-manned alliance pulled off a victory.

I believe Jon hit the nail on the head with this. Even Beatty and WildStang had some trouble maneuvering around GOOD opponents.

[ShaunT]

Originally Posted by Jon Jack

18" of carpet is not enough carpet to give a pinned team any kind of traction advantage. Look at how many 'shut down' pins there were this year. It's not like the drivers just simply let go of the controls and said 'oh well, we're done'.

That depends on how you get pinned. If you get pinned into one of the alliance station foam pads, you are stuck there until an alliance partner peels off the pinner. However, in the middle along the sides 18" is plenty of carpet to keep from being pinned. If you are sitting at one of the ends of the field you are just asking for trouble.

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Even Beatty and WildStang had some trouble maneuvering around GOOD opponents.

Maneuvering in the open field and maneuvering out of pins are two completely different situations.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by ShaunT

That depends on how you get pinned. If you get pinned into one of the alliance station foam pads, you are stuck there until an alliance partner peels off the pinner. However, in the middle along the sides 18" is plenty of carpet to keep from being pinned. If you are sitting at one of the ends of the field you are just asking for trouble.



Maneuvering in the open field and maneuvering out of pins are two completely different situations.

eh, when you talk about two robots pinning one, they can do it anywhere they feel like it; carpet doesn't help a bit.

[ShaunT]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

eh, when you talk about two robots pinning one, they can do it anywhere they feel like it; carpet doesn't help a bit.

In no situation was I referring to a two on one. You are correct, if they play it right two robots will be able to pin another robot for a whole match. However, now it's their third robot against your two alliance partners. It will not usually be a winning strategy to double pin any robot, unless it is a qualifying match where there is clearly only one scoring robot on a particular alliance.

[Chris is me]

But if you have two robots on one, then you have two robots able to score versus one scorer, with two completely free targets to get hit by HPs and robots, there's a bit of risk and reward to that strategy. 2 on 1 pins were rarely beneficial for an alliance, unless each alliance basically only had one good scorer.

Shaun beat me to it.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

But if you have two robots on one, then you have two robots able to score versus one scorer, with two completely free targets to get hit by HPs and robots, there's a bit of risk and reward to that strategy. 2 on 1 pins were rarely beneficial for an alliance, unless each alliance basically only had one good scorer.

Shaun beat me to it.

1717 used it very effectively against us in the galileo semis. They would pin and score, and 2775 would finish off the pin. game over for us.