TIME magazine Lists the Segway as "Top Ten worst Tech failures..."

[AdamHeard]

A business sense is something many engineers should, but probably will never, learn.

Many engineers would love to leave their corporate jobs to start a company that sells products geared towards FIRST teams, and use this as a platform to launch into other markets, but most would fail. Andy Baker was able to do it, which shows he has that business sense that is lost on most engineers.

It's almost sad how bad some of the engineers are, in my years of interning, I worked with some that seemed to really have no concept of how to do business.

[JesseK]

With the way the article rates everything, I'm surprised that something like the MacBook, or actually most of Apple's computer product line, isn't on there. Apple doesn't necessarily bleed cash because of their products, but they come close due to the extremely low market share and a continuously mediocre product (and the only thing they're doing is throwing cash at it via advertising...worst idea ever...).

I somewhat agree with Adam for the business perspective in new technologies. I think the overall article, not just the one that's about the Segway, does emphasize a good point in engineering -- anything that's engineered without a pre-determined need becomes a risk in the market. This is why engineers of consumer products need more than just a good product design in order for the product to be successful. Yet companies cannot be narrow-minded and reactive to a market, as stagnation in a company's product innovation will inevitably lead to its downfall.

There is hope though, because there can be ALOT of product failures before the ONE golden egg that more than makes up for the failures (like Apple's iPhone/iPod & Store). Hence, usually companies have a business model that accounts for the risk of a new technology product. If the product is truly unsuccessful and they were way off target in the initial market analysis, the company eats the cost and retains the intellectual property to license it out in future years.

Like a modern day DaVinci scenario, sometimes the world just isn't ready for the technology yet. When we're all on gigantic spaceships cruising around the galaxy, the Segway will be the greatest thing since sliced bread

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by JesseK

With the way the article rates everything, I'm surprised that something like the MacBook, or actually most of Apple's computer product line, isn't on there. Apple doesn't necessarily bleed cash because of their products, but they come close due to the extremely low market share and a continuously mediocre product (and the only thing they're doing is throwing cash at it via advertising...worst idea ever...).

I think the fact that Apple has the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 9th, and 24th most popular laptops on Amazon begs to differ.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/565108

And the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 8th, 9th, 12th, 16th, 18th, and 23rd most popular desktops.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...f=pd_ts_pc_nav

While the "market share" (there are a number of flaws with that statistic) is less than 10%, Apple's "dollar share" is nearly 35% of the laptop market and 25% of the total PC market.

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I think the fact that Apple has the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 9th, and 24th most popular laptops on Amazon begs to differ.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/565108

And the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 8th, 9th, 12th, 16th, 18th, and 23rd most popular desktops.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...f=pd_ts_pc_nav

While the "market share" (there are a number of flaws with that statistic) is less than 10%, Apple's "dollar share" is nearly 35% of the laptop market and 25% of the total PC market.

Thanks Sean.

We could also look at quarterly profits compared to other brands that "have market share", especially Asus...

units sold/market share != profit

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by JesseK

With the way the article rates everything, I'm surprised that something like the MacBook, or actually most of Apple's computer product line, isn't on there. Apple doesn't necessarily bleed cash because of their products, but they come close due to the extremely low market share and a continuously mediocre product (and the only thing they're doing is throwing cash at it via advertising...worst idea ever...).

By that logic, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Maserati, Aston Martin, and Porsche an epic failures. After all, combined these companies have less market share than Apple does.

What are these companies thinking? Constantly throwing millions of dollars into research for cars barely anyone drives. Pfft, amateurs.

[EricH]

Joe, make sure you also look at HP, Toshiba, Compaq, Gateway (in their new name), and the other companies that make Windows computers. Looking at one as a case in point does almost nothing. One data point does not a proof make.

[oddjob]

There is a (apparently) small group of people for whom the Segway is valuable. For the rest, a bicycle is superior, and even there, the new electric bicycles with motors in the hub solve at least one of the same problems as the Segway - power assist. The whole "balancing on side by side wheels" thing is cool looking but offers little to no value for most, increases width which is a disadvantage in urban areas, and consumers have spoken with their locked wallets.

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by EricH

Joe, make sure you also look at HP, Toshiba, Compaq, Gateway (in their new name), and the other companies that make Windows computers. Looking at one as a case in point does almost nothing. One data point does not a proof make.

As I stated earlier, Asus has had the same sorts of losses and have made a market share grab with their low margin, or loss leading, netbooks. HP = Compaq, Toshiba makes more than computers, and I haven't followed up on Gateway at all, but I will.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

A business sense is something many engineers should, but probably will never, learn.

Many engineers would love to leave their corporate jobs to start a company that sells products geared towards FIRST teams, and use this as a platform to launch into other markets, but most would fail. Andy Baker was able to do it, which shows he has that business sense that is lost on most engineers.

It's almost sad how bad some of the engineers are, in my years of interning, I worked with some that seemed to really have no concept of how to do business.

It is my opinion that AndyMark is setting a standard and acting as a role model for business sense and applying the wisdom gained. It could be that we have arrived at a point to explore this and the impact that the members of the FIRST community can have on the future dreams of business owners and corporations by role modeling as business owners and entrepreneurs, developing and implementing the concepts that are lacking, therefore, creating opportunity for failure.

Many FIRSTers have no problem posting opinions in ChiefDelphi regarding different aspects of team development and practical applications to be used during build. There may be a time fast approaching for the need for mentoring and sharing practical applications and career development as business owners and entrepreneurs. It is identifying itself as a need.

At some point, I can see a recognition of some sort being developed to acknowledge the successful achievements of mentors, alumni, and perhaps, students - who have plowed the row, mentored, shared valuable lessons, training, and philosophies in succeeding in the area of business and entrepreneurship. AndyMark is paving the way for those who are paying attention and looking to the future of great possibilities.

.02
Jane

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

It is my opinion that AndyMark is setting a standard and acting as a role model for business sense and applying the wisdom gained. It could be that we have arrived at a point to explore this and the impact that the members of the FIRST community can have on the future dreams of business owners and corporations by role modeling as business owners and entrepreneurs, developing and implementing the concepts that are lacking, therefore, creating opportunity for failure.

And don't forget what Tony Norman and Bob Mimlich have done with Innovation First (IFI). FIRST ran on IFI electronics and other parts for years, and their VEX product line is now serving a rapidly-growing youth community. IFI employees and sponsorship still support a number of FRC teams.