FIRST Robotics as a sport

[OZ_341]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

I can't agree with this. .........

I understand what you are saying and in fact our team has accepted students from other local communities, neighboring schools, and other countries for the past 6 years. We don't want any kid to be without a FIRST Team to join.

My point is that when Team 341 gets to the end of build season we are struck by the reality of our place in the school hierarchy. When we go to test our robot, every viable space is occupied (day and night). The gyms and auditoriums are reserved with other traditional activities. We lost our storage facility last year, for a larger exercise room. Thousands of dollars have been spent over the last few years upgrading sports facilities on site.

How many basketball courts, baseball fields, football fields, exercise/weight rooms and tracks does an average school have? I am a big sports fan, but there is no balance.

I have already mentioned all of the nice things our district does for us. But that does not mean I have to be satisfied. Until my kids don't have to beg for storage space or a place to practice, I simply will not be completely satisfied. I will continue to push the envelope.

I can only speak for my team, but I do believe what I said. Our school is proud of our team and often brags about our accomplishments in the community, but we will not have changed our school's culture completely until we have all of the things I mentioned and a few more.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by OZ_341

We lost our storage facility last year, for a larger exercise room. Thousands of dollars have been spent over the last few years upgrading sports facilities on site.

... Our school is proud of our team and often brags about our accomplishments in the community, but we will not have changed our school's culture completely until we have all of the things I mentioned and a few more.

That same exact thing happened to us this year Al. We lost one of our workshops/storage areas to a teacher's exercise facility.....

I can honestly say that I've only ever seen two teachers walk into that room.

Although the school district supports us monetarily and brags about us when they need to look good, where's the in-school recognition that every other sports team gets to enjoy on the morning announcements or in the front lobby's trophy case?

Its still a struggle but the fight is always worth it.

[OZ_341]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

.......Its still a struggle but the fight is always worth it.

Exactly! Think Big and Big things will happen! Its a daily struggle.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Although the school district supports us monetarily and brags about us when they need to look good, where's the in-school recognition that every other sports team gets to enjoy on the morning announcements or in the front lobby's trophy case?

Perhaps the solution then is to give the schools a lot to brag about.
One advantage that FRC teams have over traditional sports is the emphasis on giving back to the community (unless I'm very much mistaken most high schools sports don't have anything like the Chairman's Award). If you are able to show your school administration that you are a great asset to the community they may in turn give you a greater amount of recognition and/or support (after all what you do reflects on their image as well.)

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

... let us say that team 9991 starts one year at school A. They get a couple good sponsors from the area. Now team 9992 wants to start at school B the next year, sponsors from team 9991 cant support two teams. 9992 struggles to survive and fails the next year. Meanwhile 9991 is still running strong. School A and School B are less than 10 miles apart yet because Team 9991 is considered a school activity (or sport if you wish) students from School B cannot join because they don't go to that school. ... 300 teams in <500 square miles. It is highly unlikely that the funding, material, and mentor support is available in that high density. NYC would be better served by having several large "super teams" such that the costs of the team could be better spread out.* These teams cannot belong to schools, they must belong to school districts or non profit organizations...

I agree 99% with your important point about FIRST teams existing (1st pet peeve) and thriving outside of associations with single schools; but I have a "quibble" (2nd pet peeve).

I think you are limiting your thinking to just FRC teams. FIRST and other programs have some successful, inexpensive (roughly 1/10th to 1/5th the expenses) alternatives to FRC. Using those programs you could have up to 10 teams for the price of your team 9991.

Blake

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pockets

Perhaps the solution then is to give the schools a lot to brag about.
One advantage that FRC teams have over traditional sports is the emphasis on giving back to the community (unless I'm very much mistaken most high schools sports don't have anything like the Chairman's Award). If you are able to show your school administration that you are a great asset to the community they may in turn give you a greater amount of recognition and/or support (after all what you do reflects on their image as well.)

No offense as your advice is very sound. But...

We are a 13 year old team that has done exactly this for the last 14 years. We are the most respected program in the district. One of my points I didn't mention is that our team gets more in school support from our peers than it does from school administration. Its weird, yes. (You may not know much about our team) but we honestly (not trying to sound show offy) do really give our school admin a lot of brag about, they fail to brag about it in school though.

[waialua359]

As teams look to outreach and ways to garner support for FIRST initiatives within their own school/community, I say go higher if you keep hitting those stumbling blocks.
Having the #1 supporting governor that understands FIRST and the bigger picture, STEM initiatives, truly does open avenues. Its not like they'll just accept things with open arms at first.
Just gotta keep trying. It took our State 8 years since the 1st official robotics program of any kind to finally see its value and to step up to the plate.

[Mr. Pockets]

Sorry if that came off as blunt or rude, Akash
That was not my intent at all.

Just a question, but has anyone ever tried inviting members of their school administration to a competition? Perhaps that might show them how much like a sport robotics can be.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pockets

Sorry if that came off as blunt or rude, Akash
That was not my intent at all.

Haha, nope it did not at all. It was very good advice , its just frustrating when a team gets so far in their school system yet never reaches a certain level like Al Ostrow pointed out in his posts below.

Originally Posted by OZ_341

... Our school is proud of our team and often brags about our accomplishments in the community, but we will not have changed our school's culture completely until we have all of the things I mentioned and a few more.

Emphasis mine in bold

[demosthenes2k8]

Our team had some trouble getting a certain room for this season...and the one incident that stands out is the one where they were double booked and we were evicted. Actually, I don't remember going down there at all after the first week/week and a half.

[jsasaki]

Originally Posted by Michael Hill

This sounds like the argument that marching band is a sport. After having done both robotics and marching band, I can say that neither are sports. I can't quite put my finger on it, but they don't have that 'zing' that sports do. Ya, I'm prepared for flames; whatever, not everyone can agree on everything...flame away.

Marching Band should very well be a sport!!!!! along with robotics haha

[Jon236]

The key element in getting support from your school is getting your superintendant involved. I include her letter to Secretary Duncan that speaks eloquently for itself how well we 'infected' her!

It doesn't hurt to get team mentors elected to the school board as well. Our Treasurer (my wife, Nanette Salvino) has been involved with the team nearly from it's inception. At one point, fully a third of our Board of Education were FIRST parents!

And while we didn't get everything we wanted in the school renovation, we did get land allocated next to the shops where we will build out our own storage facility. The Old Lyme Chamber of Commerce has told us they would like to help fund this effort.

------------------------------------------------------

May 11, 2009

Mr. Arne Duncan
U.S. Secretary of Education
U.S. Department of Education
400 Maryland Avenue, S.W.
Washington, DC 20202

Dear Secretary Duncan:

As a career long educator, I naturally find joy in the accomplishments of young people. I’ve enjoyed seeing the success of students in rigorous academic measures, artistic displays, dramatic and musical performances, and in athletic competitions. And while I thought that I had experienced a comprehensive sampling of student success, it wasn’t until this past year that I realized that I had been missing a significant and magnificent experience. For it was in this past year that I became well acquainted with the FIRST program as the new superintendent in Region 18.

At first blush, I saw a robotics competition. I was pleased by this opportunity to engage students in extended activity in science and technology. What an understatement my first understandings were! FIRST is as much about cooperative problem solving and humanity as it is about science and technology. It is about the excitement and development of potential in a network of willing and able minds. I saw it in the students and their mentors both within our district and beyond.

Our local FIRST team, known as the Techno-Ticks—team 236, is a fellowship that has been gaining momentum for many years. They have made it their business to pollinate their enthusiasm among others both within and beyond the community. Their cumulative efforts earned them the coveted 2009 Chairman’s Award from FIRST. We are very proud of this distinction in a national field of 1700 teams.

I share these thoughts with you as an example of a program that meets your goals to have children spend more time in meaningful ways at their schools. It is refreshing to see groups such as this in our school building in the evenings and on the weekends, with students working side by side with educators, business leaders and engineering professionals. The project has enabled the school itself to become a magnet across the greater community for those who wish to help students learn how to invent, create and build solutions to challenging problems.



I am certain that you join me in saluting this very special accomplishment. I trust that you take pride in this mighty team from a little district in a little state. I would be proud and honored to support appropriate recognition. I ask that you consider how you might be able to promote a fitting event to recognize these students.

Thank you for supporting science and technology and, most of all, bright and eager young citizens!

Sincerely,



Elizabeth M. Osga Ph.D.
Superintendent of Schools

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by OZ_341

I understand what you are saying and in fact our team has accepted students from other local communities, neighboring schools, and other countries for the past 6 years. We don't want any kid to be without a FIRST Team to join.

My point is that when Team 341 gets to the end of build season we are struck by the reality of our place in the school hierarchy. When we go to test our robot, every viable space is occupied (day and night). The gyms and auditoriums are reserved with other traditional activities. We lost our storage facility last year, for a larger exercise room. Thousands of dollars have been spent over the last few years upgrading sports facilities on site.

How many basketball courts, baseball fields, football fields, exercise/weight rooms and tracks does an average school have? I am a big sports fan, but there is no balance.

I have already mentioned all of the nice things our district does for us. But that does not mean I have to be satisfied. Until my kids don't have to beg for storage space or a place to practice, I simply will not be completely satisfied. I will continue to push the envelope.

I can only speak for my team, but I do believe what I said. Our school is proud of our team and often brags about our accomplishments in the community, but we will not have changed our school's culture completely until we have all of the things I mentioned and a few more.

I guess when you put it in terms of hierarchy in the school I can understand a little more what you meant. I understand the struggles from being the lowest on the totem pole. In fact 397 had the police called on us several times when we set off the silent alarm at school. We disarmed it but then a group in the school armed it again. (I know who it was but its not appropriate to point fingers.) This happened for 3 consecutive days, the real problem is that we get fined whenever this happens. But of course because the other program is something the school is proud of and encourages we get blamed. I agree that it would be great to get a FRC team in every single school, that having them classified as a school sport and having their equipment and uniforms and travel paid for. I would love to live in that sort of world. The problem is that the structure is not there.

I applaud 341 on accepting students from anywhere, to me this is a quality that needs to be emulated by every single team. If a student has no access to a FRC (or similar) program then please support the student.

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

I guess when you put it in terms of hierarchy in the school I can understand a little more what you meant. I understand the struggles from being the lowest on the totem pole. In fact 397 had the police called on us several times when we set off the silent alarm at school. We disarmed it but then a group in the school armed it again. (I know who it was but its not appropriate to point fingers.) This happened for 3 consecutive days, the real problem is that we get fined whenever this happens. But of course because the other program is something the school is proud of and encourages we get blamed. I agree that it would be great to get a FRC team in every single school, that having them classified as a school sport and having their equipment and uniforms and travel paid for. I would love to live in that sort of world. The problem is that the structure is not there.

I applaud 341 on accepting students from anywhere, to me this is a quality that needs to be emulated by every single team. If a student has no access to a FRC (or similar) program then please support the student.

That sucks about the silent alarm, I feel really bad for you. My school refuses to offer any help to my team since our rookie year, which was in 2004 or 2005 (I wasn't around). Only 1/3 of the schools involved, Springfield High School, actually gives us any money, and that's only the $6,000 for the kit each year. This year, since we got a grant from a state senator, I don't even think they gave us any money, and now that they're in the habit, they probably won't next year, either.

I think robotics should be considered a sport because in my mind, it is. We spend hours of our lives, hurting our school work and social lives, in order to complete an incredibly difficult task. Not only that, FIRST emphasizes team work and such, and unlike sports that say they do, FIRST is actually more about the team and people than the robot.

My school spends thousands on sports teams that haven't been good since the 1970s. They spend no money on us, and we're not even that bad. Imagine if they would only fund us like a sports team what we could achieve in the school's name.

Plus, if golf and chess are considered sports, then robotics should definitely be considered a sport.

[Akash Rastogi]

Lol Andrew our school used to just change the locks on us....for our OWN workshop XD.

But now they're chill with us working around 3am. Even the area cops know who's on robotics and who's not. (My bro got pulled over once in '99 leaving the school at 1am lol)