The "FIRST" experience?

[Taylor]

For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology.
Nowhere in there does it say anything about Learning - else we might be in FLIRT Robotics.

To say FIRST is an engineer factory is to seriously underestimate the devotion and influence of hundreds of NEMs. The program is the brainchild of an MIT professor and a WPI dropout.

I'm not convinced that FIRST is about changing career paths of the world's youth. The phrase that keeps repeating itself to me is "it's about changing the culture, it's about celebrating brains instead of brawn." Whether a teenager is inspired to become an engineer, mechanic, surgeon, OSHA advisor, or journalist, he or she can use skills honed by being involved in FIRST. That teen also has a much greater chance of reaching that goal than the one who wants to be the next NBA, WWE, or R&B star.

As I spend more time with the FIRST community, I realize that every team is different; there's no right way to do things, and I'm not sure there's a wrong way. As Mr. Kressly said, there's just the way that is best suited to each team and its situation. Recall the vignette of a man robbing a bank with 20 customers inside. The police got 20 different accounts of the same robbery.

College is a place for minds to mature. Part of that maturation process is leaving the cozy, comfortable nest of your adolescence and exploring the world and viewpoints outside your own. As part of the maturation journey, there will be moments where you will be forced to question your deeply held values and beliefs; even if these change, you will find your convictions will be stronger. Good luck on your journey, and remember that just because you question something, that doesn't make it wrong.

[Cody Carey]

Originally Posted by Adam Y.

One career choice? How is trying to persuade people into becoming engineers trying to funnel them into one career choice. Saying you want to become an engineer is exactly like saying you want to become a scientist. You have now just narrowed down your career path 20,000 choices. There are five or six major branches of engineering depending on whether or not you consider computer engineering seperate enough from electrical. These field are electrical, mechanical, industrial, civil, computer, and chemical. Those are subdivied down into even more seperate fields.

I actually researched a bit before lumping "Engineers" all into one career choice for the purpose of illustration in my initial post. According to the US bureau of labor and statistics, Engineering is one career with 18 possible specialties. I'd also like to point out that most FRC students won't have any exposure to anything outside of mechanical, electrical, and computer engineers. I am certain that some teams have other engineers as mentors, such as industrial or materials engineers, but I think that this doesn't apply to the majority.

[RyanCahoon]

I believe FIRST's meaning is closely related to what Mr. Kamen says at this university commencement, and FIRST is just another way to recruit people, or maybe call it a way to help prepare people to be able to help the world.

--Ryan

[Adam Y.]

Originally Posted by Cody Carey

I actually researched a bit before lumping "Engineers" all into one career choice for the purpose of illustration in my initial post. According to the US bureau of labor and statistics, Engineering is one career with 18 possible specialties.

I do not like those definitions at all. There are more specialties than that websites gives. No wonder we have an engineering problem. 3/4 of my professors aren't on that list.

[ebarker]

US bureau of labor and statistics tends to lower the definition of most jobs to its base level.

It does nothing to to relate engineering to the art of engineering, or to business or social relevance, or communications, or economics.

Engineering is much more complex and much richer than is commonly perceived.

Dean touched on it in his speech above, and Woodie spoke to the point in his address at Olin.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by ebarker

US bureau of labor and statistics tends to lower the definition of most jobs to its base level.

It does nothing to to relate engineering to the art of engineering, or to business or social relevance, or communications, or economics.

Engineering is much more complex and much richer than is commonly perceived.

Dean touched on it in his speech above, and Woodie spoke to the point in his address at Olin.

Well, but isn't this the point?
In working with future scientists, technologists, and engineers, isn't working to help develop thinking and effectiveness in areas of business plans, formal presentations, communications, social relevance, and delivering a finished product of quality by the end of a hard deadline, all part of the FIRST/FRC package that is sold? Engineering fields and attitudes don't have to be set in stone. They can continue to evolve, develop, and maintain flexibility for present and future goals/needs as they present themselves or are discovered.

[Adam Y.]

Originally Posted by ebarker

US bureau of labor and statistics tends to lower the definition of most jobs to its base level.

Base level? Im doing base level electrical engineering. Their definition leaves out elctromagnetics which for all intents purposes excludes a lot of people. I wonder what we get classified as.

[emersont49]

Inspiration is a precursor to any real learning. On an FRC team, that inspiration could range from business and marketing to electrical/mechanical engineering and computer science.

I'm sometimes tempted to be critical of teams I view as being adult run but I have to remind myself that I'm only seeing or hearing small aspects of those teams. The only team I really know is my team.

One of the main reasons I mentor is to share the passion I have for robotics with students. It has been gratifying to see this passion picked up by students in technical and non-technical parts of the team. I'm certain they won't all remember the concepts of a closed loop steering system. I am, however, certain most of them will remember how much fun it was to solve a really tough problem.

[ebarker]

Yeah... what Jane said !!

What I was trying to say and doing a poor job of it - Bureau of Labor probably doesn't have a good handle on what engineers 'really' do.

I wonder how the Bureau describes 'family medicine' ?

[Joe Matt]

Hot diggity $@#$@#$@#$@# Cody, that's the best written post on the whole "student vs. mentor" lead team comparison ever. Not from a high school or mentors prospective, but a college student's.

Originally Posted by Cody Carey

The cold hard conclusions that I have come to are shocking to me. They are as follows: FIRST really isn't about learning. FIRST is about inspiring young people to want to learn. It is to show them what engineers do, and persuade them to go to college, to graduate as engineers, and to design our future. FIRST could care less what you've learned along the way in highschool, because you will re-learn it in college anyway. FIRST just provides a game, and a kit of parts.

It is up to each team to teach its members what it will. This is why there are so many polar opposites on CD when this topic is discussed. Because each team gives its members a totally different experience. Some teams Teach that the FIRST experience could not be complete without learning, and some teach that you will do the learning in college, but for now to leave it up to the engineers.

FIRST is to engineering what a football fan club is to a professional team, not a little league or high school team.

I wish I could write a post as good as yours....

[JaneYoung]

It makes it easy to see and understand just one reason why team alumni are valuable and valued. Cody's posts in this thread have helped uncover the treasured truth showing that experiences can continue to mentor, support, yield wisdom, and reveal more treasure - given time, careful thought, and remaining open to the opportunity to learn from them. Pretty cool, really.

Edit: Ed, I just read your post added below mine. Your initial post sparked a thought or two on my part. I thought you expressed yourself very well about the richness and complexity of engineering. That was cool.