Upgrade from IE 6 already...

[Q. Sheets]

Because it is not a standards compliant browser, Internet Explorer 6 poses many problems to us web designers. But, there are many internet users who still use it. So how do we propose to solve this issue? Many sites currently have special CSS code just for IE 6 and/or watered down versions of their content for those users.

This year, several large Norwegian websites have started an advocacy campaign to urge Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 users to upgrade their outdated web browsers. And since then, numerous other websites from around the globe have joined in, including Facebook and SourceForge.net.

I propose that we as FIRSTers, join in too...

Here is the code:

<!--[if lte IE 6]>
<style type="text/css">
#ie6msg{border:3px solid #090; margin:8px 0; background:#cfc; color:#000;}
#ie6msg h4{margin:8px; padding:0;}
#ie6msg p{margin:8px; padding:0;}
#ie6msg p a.getie7{font-weight:bold; color:#006;}
#ie6msg p a.ie6expl{font-weight:normal; color:#006;}
</style>
<div id="ie6msg">
<h4>Did you know that your browser is out of date?</h4>
<p>To get the best possible experience using our website we recommend that you upgrade your browser to a newer version. The current version is <a class="getie7" href="http://iallenkelhet.no/ie6/eng/index.html">Internet Explorer 7</a> and <a class="getie7" href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/Internet-explorer/beta/default.aspx">Internet Explorer 8</a> is available as a beta. The upgrade is free. If you're using a PC at work you should contact your IT-administrator.</p>
<p>If you want to you may also try some other popular Internet browsers like <a class="ie6expl" href="http://www.opera.com">Opera</a>, <a class="ie6expl" href="http://firefox.com">Firefox</a> or <a class="ie6expl" href="http://www.apple.com/safari/download/">Safari</a></p>
</div>
<![endif]-->

Translation to English by Vincent Hasselgård

[synth3tk]

I'm hip to the jive. I'll add it to my site ASAP. Thanks for the info.

[Darkcrosbone]

ehh... i say dump IE and use Firefox

[JohnBoucher]

You used to see a lot with commercial sites suggesting which browser to use to best view their site. You know only see this with some banking sites and financial sites. There are some technical reasons they do this. I hit this yesterday when i filled out the FAFSA.

Given the aggressive windows update process, most users of licensed versions of windows have already upgraded. The ones that have not are either corporate workstations whose IT departments need to keep all users equal or users of unlicensed windows versions who cannot upgrade.

My suggestion is to code around it if necessary and don't put out the "Not Welcome IE6" sign. The ones that can have already upgraded or are using another browser. The ones that can't are used to sites not displaying correctly.

[RyanCesiel]

Quentin put this up on our site, AdamBots.com, seeing as IE6 likes to render just about every single page on our site differently.

[keehun]

Instead of having an unfamiliar notice that some user may think violation of privacy (you know, many people may ask themselves, how in the world do they know which browser I'm using?)...

Use this. This looks completely normal and doesn't block them from at least reading the text and content. They know it rendered funny and they know that because the infobar says that they are missing an upgrade to properly view the page.

http://ie6update.com/

thanks,
Keehun
Team 2502

[likzuz]

I've been hearing buzz all around the internet (and I think it is confirmed) that Microsoft will be "forcing" their IE8 out through windows update. So those unsuspecting IE6 users will automatically change.

Let's hope it's true!

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Q. Sheets

I propose that we as FIRSTers, join in too

I say we, as FIRSTers, do not.

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

Given the aggressive windows update process, most users of licensed versions of windows have already upgraded. The ones that have not are either corporate workstations whose IT departments need to keep all users equal or users of unlicensed windows versions who cannot upgrade.

Originally Posted by likzuz

I've been hearing buzz all around the internet (and I think it is confirmed) that Microsoft will be "forcing" their IE8 out through windows update. So those unsuspecting IE6 users will automatically change.

Or there are people like me --legal, licensed, private owners -- who pick and choose what to update. I've been caught in too many first-day updates that haven't had the bugs shaken out of them yet.

Originally Posted by Q. Sheets

Because it is not a standards compliant browser, Internet Explorer 6 poses many problems to us web designers.

So, what did web designers do when IE6 first came out? Was it non-compliant even then?

I have various versions of various programs on various computers. Some are the newest, some older. I may upgrade, eventually, on the computers; I may not. The reasons I upgrade or not are my own, not because a web designer or programmer or bean-counter or society itself seems to think it may or may not be current or "compliant". Personally, I get turned off by websites that say I should use this browser or that browser, or by people that say Xyz browser, or anything for that matter, is "the best".

Should I buy a new cellphone every year because it's out of date? Should I drink that beverage or wear those clothes because it's the latest or "fashionable"? Why should I upgrade my software that worked when it came out, just because it's incompatable with your current standards?

[Tom Line]

I think you need to re-evaluate your end goals, and your method to get there.

Some 300,000 corporate computers at my company aren't going to be updated because of some campaign. I suspect other companies are the same.

Presenting us with a very annoying message about which we can do nothing may not be the best avenue to impress folks reading your website. Especially if the FIRST website judges are using similarly locked down corporate computers (likely) to judge your website.

My IE6 renders 99% of the sites I visit correctly. Indeed - yesterday I had to close Chrome and Firefox and return to IE6 to get several streaming sites to work correctly - because only certain codecs are installed on the corporate computers and they only function correctly with certain programs - namely IE6. It isn't as simple as just installing a new browser on those hundreds of thousands of corporate computers you're talking about.

[JohnBoucher]

Originally Posted by Roger

So, what did web designers do when IE6 first came out? Was it non-compliant even then?

The simple answer is Yes.

I also have to agree with you that it does not matter. You can still view the page in a non-complient browser, or with javescript turned off, or flash not installed or ad blocking not turned on.

It is the web developers job to get their pages to work as best as possible in all browsers and versions.

Example. My most visited domain
IE 71% of visitors
Firefox 20% of visitors

For the IE users
65% are on IE7
24% are on IE6
10% are on IE8
1% are on IE5

I cannot ignore the 25% that are IE6 or lower, BUT if you are one of those you expect to see sites being a little funky.

[scottmacdonald]

I made a website game (Scrabble) for my tech class project.

It was wacky in IE and fine in Firefox and Chrome, I spent a few hours trying to fix it and couldn't. After consulting my teacher she said it was okay because "Internet Explorer isn't as good as Firefox"

Here's the link to my Solitaire Scrabble Game

I left is as only Firefox and Chrome Compatible

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Roger

So, what did web designers do when IE6 first came out? Was it non-compliant even then?

Yes.

When IE6 came out around 2001 with the release of XP, Netscape was pretty much dead. This allowed IE6 to have a peak market share of around 95% in the early 2000s, which kept climbing until around late 2004/early 2005. During that time, the industry guidelines for how a web browser should behave had about as much weight at Microsoft as a UN resolution has on North Korea.

Then came Firefox, which was the first widely successful non-IE browser that had the features to be successful, while still sticking closely to the industry standards.

The whole attitude that people in corporate environments can't quickly change browser versions is true, but nowadays with the newer versions of IE moving towards standards, it is becoming harder and harder to actually make websites work in IE6. There are a lot of "hacks" that have to be done to get IE6 to play nice, and all of them lead to horrendous code. And every time a newer version of IE is released, it becomes harder to get IE6 to work correctly, and really takes a disproportionate amount of man-hours in regards to the IE6 market share.

Yet the people who are "stuck" with IE6 is still high enough that it can't be ignored, although once it drops below 10% for all IE visitors, that's when you'll pretty much see support for it drop like a stone.

[Cow Bell Solo]

I say, as designing some websites, that you the web designer, if you want people to view your site, you make it so they can view it on all platforms on all connections.

We have dailup, I hate websites that have so much junk on them that it takes 5 minutes just to load the home page because they want it all fancy for the best specs to view and just say hey you don't have this then get it. One reason why I have used a lot of php stuff on our site cause that is server installed so it works for everyone. The best website can just be white background with black text, its all in content.

All in all, like i first said, you want people to see, make it work for them, a lot of the time if a site asks me to download something or to switch to make it work, I ignore it and it turns me away, as i'm sure it does others. Especially if you have to download and you have dailup.

[synth3tk]

Somewhat off-topic and partially humorous, but I got soooo pissed trying to fix this one issue in Internet Explorer (which came down to a CMS module that IE didn't like) that I wrote this webpage and redirected all IE users to it until I solved the problem. I still have no clue what exact line of code caused it, but I'm not too worried over it.

I received a lot of "lolz" from this page.
http://weareevil.net/sorry-ie-user.html


Back on-topic, what determines what the standard browser is? Some panel of judges who vote for it bi-annually? An unbiased corporation? I mean, if it's really up to the users, then as web developers, couldn't we somehow bring it to their attention? Not like forcing users to a separate webpage or anything, but subtle things such as a notice or message on our websites. Maybe making a campaign to convert people to another browser, or at the very least, upgrade to a newer version of IE. I understand the corporations who have hundreds, even thousands, of computers, and if I were in the IT's shoes, I certainly wouldn't want to be the one upgrading all of those computers and fixing applications that depend on IE6.

But consumers have a choice.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

Somewhat off-topic and partially humorous, but I got soooo pissed trying to fix this one issue in Internet Explorer (which came down to a CMS module that IE didn't like) that I wrote this webpage and redirected all IE users to it until I solved the problem. I still have no clue what exact line of code caused it, but I'm not too worried over it.

I received a lot of "lolz" from this page.
http://weareevil.net/sorry-ie-user.html


Back on-topic, what determines what the standard browser is? Some panel of judges who vote for it bi-annually? An unbiased corporation? I mean, if it's really up to the users, then as web developers, couldn't we somehow bring it to their attention? Not like forcing users to a separate webpage or anything, but subtle things such as a notice or message on our websites. Maybe making a campaign to convert people to another browser, or at the very least, upgrade to a newer version of IE. I understand the corporations who have hundreds, even thousands, of computers, and if I were in the IT's shoes, I certainly wouldn't want to be the one upgrading all of those computers and fixing applications that depend on IE6.

But consumers have a choice.

Ok, I'll bite here, that page, while funny is unprofessional. I assume this was for a personal website and not representing your team. You still have to be careful, if your name is attached to it this could come back to bite you years from now. Ok, enough of that...

Standard browser is probably the one that has the largest market share, in this case it is probably the browser that comes with ~90% of the new computers in the world, Internet Explorer. And don't think that browser ignorance is a problem only for Windows users. I know plenty of people who use the phrase, "Let me open the internet" when they click on the icon for Safari. When you ask them what version of Internet Explorer they are running they will adamantly tell you they don't use that program they just browse the internet. So, sadly, the average person defines the "Standard" browser. We just have to deal with it.

Now, what makes IE 6 such a horrid browser? It is not standards compliant, the standards for HTML are defined by a group called the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C). You can test your browsers to see how compliant they are by using a series of tests called the ACID Tests (available here)

My suggestion to everyone would be to use some sort of testing system (http://browsershots.org/) is among the top google hits. Obviously this only helps with layout bugs, there is a similar (not free) service for testing javascript (google cross browser testing). Always validate your code and allow your users to give you feedback, if they see a bug you might have missed (very likely) let them tell you! Trust me, it is much better to get a product good enough and on time than perfect and way over budget.