pic: Team 221 LLC. - Wild Swerve Module

[keehun]

Dean probably won't care because like he doesn't care if mentors do everything from planning to building... He emphasizes the INSPIRATION model..

[GarrettF2395]

I come from a team with very limited resource's (Our best tool is a drill press that hardly works).
For months now, we has been trying to figure out someway to make a swerve drive of our own.
But due to a lack of equipment, we haven't been able to come up with a product that would work in competition.

But after seeing this, I'm really excited, because we may get our chance!
Having a working swerve drive that we can assemble, study, tinker with, and program, would be amazing!
You can only learn so much from looking at pictures, and listening to people talk about how they built their drive.

This product would give my team the hands on learning they need to design and build their own swerve in the future.
If we are able to purchase this product in the off season, with enough time to debug and work out the kinks; AND we get a machine shop as a sponsor, I believe we would build our own next season (Game and GDC permitting).

So to those of you that think this isn't in the spirit of FIRST, because it decreases the learning experience.
I believe that, at least with my team, it provokes learning.
It gives you the best learning tool out there, a hands on tool.
A tool that for some teams, like mine, was thought to be out of reach at the moment.

Originally Posted by Teamcap.2395

So to those of you that think this isn't in the spirit of FIRST, because it decreases the learning experience.
I believe that, at least with my team, it provokes learning.
It gives you the best learning tool out there, a hands on tool.
A tool that for some teams, like mine, was thought to be out of reach at the moment.

Originally Posted by keehun

Dean probably won't care because like he doesn't care if mentors do everything from planning to building... He emphasizes the INSPIRATION model..

I don't believe it's against the point of FIRST, rather, I think it dulls the educational opportunities that FIRST provides. While the point of FRC is to inspire engineering and science based educations and careers, it also provides an incredible medium for education, and getting a head start on life.

Kits like these dull the value of that education immensely, and a level playing field does nothing to mimic the real world. There are always engineering companies with better tools, more funding, and better employees than you in the real world. Learning to improvise and compete with what you have, not with a standardized kit will train you more for the real world.

The goal of FIRST can be met with a set of legos, the robot is just a medium. But the education that comes with it, that is truly special.

[NorviewsVeteran]

I'm going to finally get my feet wet in this one, and hope they don't get bitten off by something.

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

Learning to improvise and compete with what you have, not with a standardized kit will train you more for the real world.

Once this 'standardized kit' hits the retail shelves, doesn't it become the standard? So that you can improve on the system, or move on to the next challenge?

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

Kits like these dull the value of that education immensely, and a level playing field does nothing to mimic the real world. There are always engineering companies with better tools, more funding, and better employees than you in the real world.

Completely disagree. These kits do not change the fact that different "companies" still have access to better resources. No amount of COTS components will ever change that.

Until FRC kits come with CNC machines, state of the art build facilities, a $10,000 voucher for McMaster, and clones of Paul Copioli and Andy Baker, a level playing field will never be an issue. Moreover, "raising the bar" of the competition is absolutely a major part of the real world.

What industry do you know of where the competition never gains access to new and previously unattainable technologies and the leaders never have to worry about stepping up their game?

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

Learning to improvise and compete with what you have, not with a standardized kit will train you more for the real world.

Completely disagree. Real world engineering is often more about evaluating and selecting available off the shelf components than it is innovating from scratch. Innovation is best suited to filling the gaps between what is already available, not re-creating what you're too stubborn to use.

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

The goal of FIRST can be met with a set of legos, the robot is just a medium. But the education that comes with it, that is truly special.

This is your opinion, and I respect it, but I have to completely disagree. The goal of FIRST is inspiration. Anyone who tells you that watching a LEGO League robot is 100% as inspiring as watching 1114 hurdle trackballs, 67 fill a trailer, or 25 light up the high goal is lying. The size, speed, and power of full sized FRC robots are much more sublime. People go to the zoo to see the lions and tigers, not the ants.

Inspiration is showing what true professionals can do and lighting enough of the way so that students can connect the dots between their lives and the life of a professional engineer. College and hands-on training will get them there; we only need to show them the way.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Jared341

Until FRC kits come with CNC machines, state of the art build facilities, a $10,000 voucher for McMaster, and clones of Paul Copioli and Andy Baker, a level playing field will never be an issue.

Anxiously awaiting PC and AB clones. I saw the JVN one, but heard it was limited edition and not included in next years kit. Is AndyMark supplying AB clones?

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...light=JVN+doll

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by IKE

Anxiously awaiting PC and AB clones. I saw the JVN one, but heard it was limited edition and not included in next years kit. Is AndyMark supplying AB clones?

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...light=JVN+doll

I'll take a AB Bobble-Head any day!

[Enigma's puzzle]

So here is the real kicker.

Now that anyone one with a little cash and some programing prowess can have a Swerve drive quite similar to WildStang, What does WildStang have? So much hard work to perfect, suddenly handed to the opposition? Not that they aren't smart enough to come up with new ideas.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Enigma's puzzle

So here is the real kicker.

Now that anyone one with a little cash and some programing prowess can have a Swerve drive quite similar to WildStang, What does WildStang have? So much hard work to perfect, suddenly handed to the opposition? Not that they aren't smart enough to come up with new ideas.

What do you do after making a design public?
Improve it!

What do you do when you give your opponents a weapon?
Come up with a better one or a way to beat it!

What is Wildstang going to do, you ask?
Make their drivetrains better!

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Enigma's puzzle

So here is the real kicker.

Now that anyone one with a little cash and some programing prowess can have a Swerve drive quite similar to WildStang, What does WildStang have? So much hard work to perfect, suddenly handed to the opposition? Not that they aren't smart enough to come up with new ideas.

Yes, we can all have a swerve drive similar to 111's. We still do not have their experience with it. They have built swerving machines for as long as I can remember, they know the strengths and weaknesses of this style of play. They know how to integrate these strengths into their strategy.

A good robot is only half the formula for winning. Again using my favorite example of a good robot and an amazing strategy, 1114 in 2008 was NOT the best robot. They were the best team. They had a great strategy and a robot designed to implement that strategy. Yes we can now all have a 111 style drive, we can all have shifting transmissions, we can all have PID loops in our controls. Doesn't change the fact that unless you know how to use something it does you no good.


(As usual, my disclaimers about not picking on 1114 apply here. They were a fantastic machine but they did not win because of that.)

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Enigma's puzzle

What does WildStang have?

Let's see:

• 14 years of experience
• A two time Championship winning coach (probably the second most intimidating coach in FIRST)
• Some of the best programmers in the competition
• Some of the best robot designers in the competition

I think they'll be okay.
Maybe when team221 has those things for sale Stang will be in trouble.

[Aren_Hill]

Originally Posted by JVN

Let's see:[list]
[*]A two time Championship winning coach (probably the second most intimidating coach in FIRST)

Gotta ask, who's #1

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Aren_Hill

Gotta ask, who's #1

In my opinion, * Beatty. I don't care if 71 puts out a 120lb block of steel that doesn't move, when they are on the field you respect their ability to beat you.


(For any of you who don't get the *, it is commonly used as a wildcard operator, so I am saying that any Beatty scares me)

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

In my opinion, Bill Beatty. I don't care if 71 puts out a 120lb block of steel that doesn't move, when they are on the field you respect their ability to beat you.

While I agree that you have to give Mr. Bill all of the respect he has earned, Brian Beatty is actually the drive coach for 71, not Bill.

[Aren_Hill]

I'd say from my experience its either Raul Olivera or Paul Copioli

Only intimidating the first couple times lol after you get over that they're simply formidable