From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals

[Kyle]

I have boxes and boxes of FIRST pins stored away, all of my medals are hanging up for everyone who enters my room to see and ask about. I have been more then lucky to be on a "successful" team in my career in FIRST but the idea of everyone getting a chance to hang a medal in their room or door and be able to explain "I was in a contest where I helped build a robot that competed in a competition with students from across the world with some of the largest corporations on the planet sponsoring that has been aired on ESPN and every major news station in the US" is a pretty cool thing to be able to say while showing off a medal, no one outside of FIRST knows the bronze is a participation medal, they see a medal and know that the person who has that was part of something great and they accomplished a task that was deserving of a medal.
Pins would be great for awards of some kind but giving every student who participated in FIRST a medal at the end of the season is one of the reasons why I love FIRST so much, its not a ribbon that is can be made in my basement or a piece of paper that costs 30 cents a copy with fancy letters.

Sorry for the long response but there are other ways to cut costs in FIRST, honoring each and every student, mentor and sponsor who gave so much throughout the season is worth the extra cost in my mind.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Libby K

EDIT: Also, guys- post these opinions on Bill's blog so he can see them too! Our voices should be heard.

Please don't yell at Bill tomorrow Libby!

[Robert Cawthon]

I really like the idea of the pins. However, I would like to keep the bronze medals for both of the third place teams (the losers of the semi-finals) just to get more medals out there. Make it a real bronze medal, not a participation medal. The bronze medal would then be something to brag about (maybe a little) but in any case, I believe that everyone should get a pin whether they medal or not.

[JesseK]

This is my $0.03 darn inflation...

Pins -- I could think of a TON of things we could all do with 19 (19 games...) pins all decorated and put on ... something ... for those who view our robots at demonstrations. Yet I'm pretty sure that everyone who sees a medal from afar simply says 'wow, they win alot' as a first impression.

Heh, maybe I'm just biased because I'm similar to Billfred in that my medals usually sit around collecting dust after a while. The FRC pins though -- those go on my work lanyard, and I'm constantly asked about new ones (2008/2009 mentor/coach pin anyone?). On top of that, any student who has 4 pins in a row has something much more impressive and something that's much easier to talk about than 4 medals that all look alike.

I'm not sure I should even have an opinion on this since we have always won something at our home regionals that give us a 'placement' medal. Yet the guys at work usually look past the medals and ask about the mentor-awarded plaques that the medals are hanging on -- what are those for, what did you do, who's in that picture and most important, WOW that looks like fun.

[ttldomination]

In FTC, the participants get pins for their involvment and the only reason I have put them on display is because they go nicely with my FRC participation Medal(s).

I know that pins seem like a new/exciting and might even seem like fun at first, but I really like the medals idea. It gives everyone a chance to be in the 'not' losing spirit if you walk away with a medal around your neck.

Personally, I prefer medals simply because I've recieved both and it's much more fulfilling to walk away with a medal around my neck than a pin in my hand...

[Nick Lawrence]

I like the idea of the pins, but I find sometimes the bronze medals rather unnecessary to be given out to every student that goes through FRC. I personally have not collected my bronze medals this year, they've gone to other teammates. You won't find one on my medal rack at home, either. I find them rather taunting, really, as a driver. To me, it says "Hey, thanks for playing, you can have something that thousands of other FIRSTers get too." Pins would be much lower cost, and they would look kind of cool. Sure, the idea is the same, and I probably would only collect one of them a year, to keep track of games I've played. After all, FLL gives out pins to every student that participates in a regional competition.

Personally, I think FIRST could pull this off, and save tons of money. Maybe enough in shipping costs to bring back larger trophies.

-Nick

[Chris is me]

Call me a sucker but I kinda liked the everyone's a winner thing with participation medals. I loved being able to run home with a medal after each FTC tournament I did, because just getting there and functioning is worthy of recognition. I was really disspaointed when I just got a pin in 2008... but then things changed and stuff happened.

Of course this year I never got a bronze medal luckily, but it's still nice.

I'd be more okay with it if they brought back the gigantic trophies though. Picking up the FRC trophy, I think it was smaller than last year's FTC. Not quite as magical. Not that I'm bitter.

[Stephen Kowski]

The real question is of the $20 million/year how much of it goes to bronze medals? I think from a cost cutting perspective the at large community is not able to give an informed answer to this due to the lack of budget info.

If the question is do you think buttons will be just as effective at providing positive reinforcement to students as a medal would? I personally would argue no, but that's not the question the stated goal here is cost cutting.

Seems like a guided question without all the info Billfred.

[AndyB]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

In all seriousness though, I think I would definitely prefer customized pins. IMO they look cooler than bronze medals, and you can add them to a hat or something and keep a record of the games you've participated in. The only downside I see is that if they're truly a one-to-one swap for the bronze medals, the teams that win silver and gold at their first regional will miss out on cool pins...

I'm with Billfred, my bronze medals just hang around and clank when something touches them. They're nice to complete the timeline, but they're big and heavy for that purpose alone.

Have to agree with you on this one. There is no practicality in the bronze medals. They are worn for, at most, a day and replacing them would probably save a pretty penny. I also like the idea of displaying your pins at FIRST events. The bronze medals all pretty much look the same and they seem to just blend together as more are collected rather than provide a memory.

[EricH]

I'd go for the following:
1) replace the bronze medals with pins of some kind
2) restore the old trophy sizes
3) eliminate the automatic second trophy per award (Any team that wants it can request it, though--they pay shipping)
4) local suppliers for the trophies and medals, if possible--have them show up Wed. during field setup with trophies boxed, then any leftover trophies get set on to the next event or ATL.

Seems that that could reduce a lot of shipping costs, and some production costs at the same time. Logistics are a little more convoluted, but how many teams actually give the second trophy to a sponsor? (And how many sponsors already have too many?)

[JVN]

Food for thought:

Who has read FIRST's 2008 annual report?
http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...8_AR_FINAL.pdf

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by EricH

[ ... ] how many teams actually give the second trophy to a sponsor? (And how many sponsors already have too many?)

Can sponsors have too few trophies displaying their outreach efforts? Some teams cycle through minor sponsors like candy some years while others have one or two major sponsors. Some teams, like mine, are in between. We still don't have a trophy at every one of our sponsors, and we've won a plethora of awards. We make plaques for each sponsor instead, but that doesn't mean we don't want to specifically recognize the help that was given to us by the one sponsor that goes the extra mile. A sponsor helped us win Engineering Inspiration in 2008 with a mentor who reviewed our writing and guided us with presentation, so of course that EI trophy went to that sponsor. We definitely do not want to stop this practice.

On top of that, we are SO CLOSE to having a fuller display cabinet at the school than the football team. All we need is a regional win or a national award coupled with a regional award (granted the school has only been around for 6 years, but it has a good football team...).

[EricH]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Can sponsors have too few trophies displaying their outreach efforts? Some teams cycle through minor sponsors like candy some years while others have one or two major sponsors. Some teams, like mine, are in between. We still don't have a trophy at every one of our sponsors, and we've won a plethora of awards. We make plaques for each sponsor instead, but that doesn't mean we don't want to specifically recognize the help that was given to us by the one sponsor that goes the extra mile. A sponsor helped us win Engineering Inspiration in 2008 with a mentor who reviewed our writing and guided us with presentation, so of course that EI trophy went to that sponsor. We definitely do not want to stop this practice.

On top of that, we are SO CLOSE to having a fuller display cabinet at the school than the football team. All we need is a regional win or a national award coupled with a regional award (granted the school has only been around for 6 years, but it has a good football team...).

Exactly. Many teams already give their sponsors plaques or certificates or yearbooks instead of FRC trophies. Said teams wind up with their trophy space disappearing due to double trophies. So, you ship one trophy to each event. Teams winning an award at the event have the option to order another, either paying for shipping or not paying at all (FIRST gets the cost). Or you say, such-and-such local awards company has the pattern, talk to them and they'll get you the trophy. Now the team can choose to get the second trophy and give it to the sponsor, or not.

[Chris is me]

Local suppliers leads to inconsistent trophies. The current acrylic trophies are very clean and professional, and part of that I think is the consistency. Other ideas aren't so bad. Especially the trophy sizes thing.

I never knew the second trophy was intended for a primary sponsor... I just figured they thought most organizations would need to have more than one.

[Akash Rastogi]

I could definitely go for EricH's idea. If a team wants that second trophy then they should have to pay for at least the shipping.

Btw, as Libby said before, it's better to post directly on Bill's blog.