From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals

[Libby K]

As I transfer over from the 'student side' of FIRST to the 'mentor side', it makes me sad to think that medals might go- I feel badly that my future students won't have that big, shiny, tangible thing that they can show off to their school, their friends, and their teachers, that lets them know that no matter what happened to their team this year, what they did with the FIRST program was important.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Libby K

lets them know that no matter what happened to their team this year, what they did with the FIRST program was important.

But isn't the entire point that they should already feel that way?

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

But isn't the entire point that they should already feel that way?

It's still nice to have a tangible, symbolic representation of such feelings that you can easily show to people and yourself when need be.

Now I want both. ._.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Libby K

As I transfer over from the 'student side' of FIRST to the 'mentor side', it makes me sad to think that medals might go- I feel badly that my future students won't have that big, shiny, tangible thing that they can show off to their school, their friends, and their teachers, that lets them know that no matter what happened to their team this year, what they did with the FIRST program was important.

Wearing participation medals presented lots of opportunities for PR and for portraying a unified effort. For the teams who chose to keep them in a box, in storage, and who didn't mine the potential, that was a decision or oversight made. For the teams that appreciated the purpose of the medals and chose to wear them, display them, and give them as gifts to their supporters - they were mining and exploring the purpose of the participation medals in the FRC program wisely and in good faith.

An opportunity has presented itself to present opinions regarding personal preferences towards receiving and wearing a medal or a pin. Whether we have valued and appreciated the medals or not in the past, it doesn't mean we have to show disrespect towards their intent when discussing them.

Thanks for stating your opinion so well, Libby.

Jane

Edit: It might also be worthwhile to think about the business or businesses that made the medals and ribbons for FRC available and the time crunches/deadlines they faced regarding supply and demand as well as as their costs and the impact this decision will have on them as supporters of the FIRST program.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

Wearing participation medals presented lots of opportunities for PR and for portraying a unified effort. For the teams who chose to keep them in a box, in storage, and who didn't mine the potential, that was a decision or oversight made. For the teams that appreciated the purpose of the medals and chose to wear them, display them, and give them as gifts to their supporters - they were mining and exploring the purpose of the participation medals in the FRC program wisely and in good faith.

An opportunity has presented itself to present opinions regarding personal preferences towards receiving and wearing a medal or a pin. Whether we have valued and appreciated the medals or not in the past, it doesn't mean we have to show disrespect towards their intent when discussing them.

Thanks for stating your opinion so well, Libby.

Jane

Edit: It might also be worthwhile to think about the business or businesses that made the medals and ribbons for FRC available and the time crunches/deadlines they faced regarding supply and demand as well as as their costs and the impact this decision will have on them as supporters of the FIRST program.

Jane brings up an excellent point. (Bolded for your convenience). Some teams appreciate the intent and proudly display their participation medals. Some teams choose not to use them. That's totally their choice, and there's no 'right' or 'wrong' with it. It's just the team's decision.

Now here's a giant WHAT IF:
(please note: I am not a business major, I'm studying engineering- I do not know what it would cost FIRST to do this, I have not studied the circumstances nearly enough, but it's just an idea, please take it in the spirit it's meant.)

WHAT IF: FIRST gave each team the option, as they were doing their event registration in TIMS, to choose what they wanted. They could then pick their choice (medal or pin) up at their first regional/district event. The team could internally take their vote: OK, kids, which one do you think is cooler? Which one would you value more highly? If the team chooses to display their efforts with a medal, then that's the option they click in TIMS. If they think the medals are bulky and they'd rather have a smaller item, then they click 'pin'. The choice is marked in FIRST's system, and it's sent to their regional.

Yes, FIRST is still ordering medals, but at least they're not ordering so many extras that go to waste. From the looks of the way it's played out on ChiefDelphi and Bill's Blog, FIRST would order roughly half of what they used to (cutting costs for medals in -you guessed it- roughly half!).

EDIT: GaryVoshol corrected me, my math is just plain wrong when you add in fixed production costs.

I volunteered at FIRSTPlace as a summer camp counselor for the past 4 years, and every year there were boxes and boxes of participation medals (silver & gold medals, too) left over, presumably by teams that didn't pick them up. Give the teams a choice, and you've eliminated the over-ordering problem.

Again- I have never seen FIRST's budget beyond the Annual Report that goes out, I have not studied exact costs, but that's my idea for making everyone happy. There are probably a few flaws with it, but like I said- I'm not an expert. I'm just thinking out loud (er...online?).

[Schnabel]

Originally Posted by EricH

Nothing says that you can't a) do the same thing with pins or b) make your own participation awards (medals, trophies, etc).

This gives me a great idea! I should start a Pat-yourself-on-the-back club. All we would do is make plaques, medals, and awards for, you guessed it, Ourselves!!!! Then we can be ungracious about it and go around and brag about how we have a medal for Most Steps taken form a single door while eating a hot pocket.

Now that above is really overstated, but, that is essentially what you are saying we should do if we want medals. At KHS, the robotics team gets very little recognition compared to any other sports team, but it always is very nice to see when a bunch of TechnoKats would wear their medals around the school right after a competition because the people around them ask what it's for. The medals in my opinion are a very good marketing item for a team.

[Chris is me]

Some more food for thought: Why not eliminate winning medals in addition to participation medals? What reasons for eliminating participation medals don't apply to winner medals, and why? (I'm not trying to "trick" people or anything or imply anything, I'm just posing ideas)

[Kristian Calhoun]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Some more food for thought: Why not eliminate winning medals in addition to participation medals? What reasons for eliminating participation medals don't apply to winner medals, and why? (I'm not trying to "trick" people or anything or imply anything, I'm just posing ideas)

FIRST has already changed the design of the Regional Champion, Finalist, and Chairman's Award medals in addition to shrinking the sizes of certain trophies (the subject of one of Bill's blog entries last year). My conjecture is that FIRST has already "cut costs" with respect to the competition's "winners" and is now looking to extend their savings to other areas of the program (AKA the rest of the participants).

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Kristian Calhoun

FIRST has already changed the design of the Regional Champion, Finalist, and Chairman's Award medals in addition to shrinking the sizes of certain trophies (the subject of one of Bill's blog entries last year). My conjecture is that FIRST has already "cut costs" with respect to the competition's "winners" and is now looking to extend their savings to other areas of the program (AKA the rest of the participants).

Just for the record, the weight and cost of the Participation Medals was cut at the same time as the Chairman's and Winner medals.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Schnabel

This gives me a great idea! I should start a Pat-yourself-on-the-back club. All we would do is make plaques, medals, and awards for, you guessed it, Ourselves!!!! Then we can be ungracious about it and go around and brag about how we have a medal for Most Steps taken form a single door while eating a hot pocket.

That could happen... BUT, don't get me started on how this very thing seems to be happening all over the place, especially in the school system...

...or wherever participation medals/trophies are given out. Just seems like you're giving an award for doing nothing.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Libby K

... WHAT IF: FIRST gave each team the option, as they were doing their event registration in TIMS, to choose what they wanted. They could then pick their choice (medal or pin) ... The choice is marked in FIRST's system, and it's sent to their regional.

Yes, FIRST is still ordering medals, but at least they're not ordering so many extras that go to waste. From the looks of the way it's played out on ChiefDelphi and Bill's Blog, FIRST would order roughly half of what they used to (cutting costs for medals in -you guessed it- roughly half!).

It wouldn't be half the savings, because there are fixed costs associated with production that are there whether you produce 100 medals or 100,000. In addition, there would be additional packing costs as they ensure that each team's individual package was shipped to the correct regional.

Originally Posted by EricH

...or wherever participation medals/trophies are given out. Just seems like you're giving an award for doing nothing.

For nothing except participating. And presumably gaining something from that participation, or else why would we have FIRST at all? If we had some survey that said 80% of the kids wouldn't participate without a medal, we might be on to something. But I don't think that's the case. The award - whether it be medal, pin or certificate - is to recognize the work that it took to be a team member. If it can also be a visual item to increase awareness of FIRST and the individual teams, all the better. The question then becomes, what is better, medal or pin? Which will be used more, which will be noticed more? (I leave out certificates because no one goes around carrying their certificates, and students don't have cubicle walls to pin them on.)

[EricH]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

For nothing except participating. And presumably gaining something from that participation, or else why would we have FIRST at all? If we had some survey that said 80% of the kids wouldn't participate without a medal, we might be on to something. But I don't think that's the case. The award - whether it be medal, pin or certificate - is to recognize the work that it took to be a team member.

Gary, I wasn't specifically referring to participation in FIRST. Back when I started as a competitor, we didn't get none of these-here participation medals, and we didn't need 'em, and we liked it that way!

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by EricH

Gary, I wasn't specifically referring to participation in FIRST. Back when I started as a competitor, we didn't get none of these-here participation medals, and we didn't need 'em, and we liked it that way!

I have a 1998 participation medal, so I don't think your old man routine is very accurate.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

I have a 1998 participation medal, so I don't think your old man routine is very accurate.

They weren't distributed in 2003 and 2004, that I know about. (admittedly wasn't eligible either year) I don't remember any showing up from 2002, though I can't remember if we were eligible that year. Ditto in 2001, and I'm fairly sure we were then. So either we didn't pick them up and/or I just didn't know about them, or they were not distributed.

Also note that none from those years are in any of our storage cabinets to my knowledge.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by EricH

They weren't distributed in 2003 and 2004, that I know about. (admittedly wasn't eligible either year) I don't remember any showing up from 2002, though I can't remember if we were eligible that year. Ditto in 2001, and I'm fairly sure we were then. So either we didn't pick them up and/or I just didn't know about them, or they were not distributed.

Also note that none from those years are in any of our storage cabinets to my knowledge.

I'm fairly certain they had them from 2001 to 2004. I've only gotten bronze medals as a high school student, and I think I got one all four years.