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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-08-2009, 15:27
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Re: FRC 2010 Registration fees reduced

So here's my thoughts now that this has sunk in.

From the start, I was always under the impression that we would be required to reuse every part of the control system each year (cRio, PD board, bumpers/sidecars, basically everything but the speed controllers). On top of this, I had not expected FIRST to lower the registration fee at all. Seeing this announcement, then, makes me quite happy indeed.

Indeed, you are going to get less value for your kit, but from my perspective, it seems that we are going to end up on top. If you recall Bill's post from last year, we knew that we were not getting a new "cRIO, modules, bumpers, digital side car, power distribution board, drivers station and a number of other items" (direct quote from Bill). The fact that they are lowering the registration price leads me to believe that someone at FIRST is thinking about more than the bottom line.

I am quite excited about the prospect for a new driver's station. Now I don't have to walk around zapping myself before I touch the current DS.

With these new developments however, I am now waiting for even more information.
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Unread 05-08-2009, 15:36
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Re: FRC 2010 Registration fees reduced

Quote:
Originally Posted by artdutra04 View Post
If swapping a cRIO is too difficult, then the price of one additional cRIO + modules per year is $750, which means a net increase in costs of $802. This means if you want to reuse your entire control system, your costs could be as low as $5000, but if you want to have a practice robot or keep an older robot operational, your price will be up to $6802. This is a LOT better than the 2009 season, where purchasing a second control system for a practice robot cost $2000+ on top of the $6000 registration.

Either way, this is a better than what it was during this season.
Art,
I'm not quite understanding this.
Isn't the 2009 season better as your comparison is for 2 control systems vs. 1? For 6802, its just 1 control system vs 6000 in 2009.

The economy and the cost of materials dont lie. It will cost everyone more to do the status quo as in the past. Under the old IFI system, you could have easily done the same, without the official FIRST memo.......IF you wanted two robots (1 practice and 1 competition version).
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Unread 05-08-2009, 16:01
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Re: FRC 2010 Registration fees reduced

Quote:
Originally Posted by waialua359 View Post
Art,
I'm not quite understanding this.
Isn't the 2009 season better as your comparison is for 2 control systems vs. 1? For 6802, its just 1 control system vs 6000 in 2009.
Maybe I should have clarified it as 2010 being cheaper than expected. We were expecting to have to buy another control system for the 2010 competition robot on top of the $6000 registration fee. But last season we had to spend $2200 on top of the $6000 to purchase an additional system for a practice robot, whereas this year it'll cost $802 on top of the [originally expected] $6000 for another control system (which would allow us to keep 2009 operational, along with both practice and competition robots for 2010).

Although absolute wise, yes, it is more expensive this year, as it'll cost $6802 to get everything that was in the 2009 KoP for $6000. However it was hinted at quite often that we'd only be getting a single control system, so an increase in price was to be expected if you wanted new control systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waialua359 View Post
The economy and the cost of materials dont lie. It will cost everyone more to do the status quo as in the past. Under the old IFI system, you could have easily done the same, without the official FIRST memo.......IF you wanted two robots (1 practice and 1 competition version).
Don't get me wrong, I kind of prefer the inexpensive nature of the IFI control system over the expensive NI control system. Yes, we do have a lot more cool features on the NI system, but I think there could have been better specs per price ratio from other systems, like the Vex Qwerk (between 1/2 and 1/4 of the specs of the NI system for 1/10 the price, while still being a vast improvement over the previous IFI controllers).
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Unread 05-08-2009, 16:09
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Re: FRC 2010 Registration fees reduced

Greetings FRC Teams:



FIRST® announces pricing for upcoming 2010 FRC season



Lower cost for FRC Veteran teams due to 2009 kit component recycle; and
FIRST Founder, Dean Kamen, provides $1,000.00 grant to each new FRC Rookie team to be used towards the 2010 registration fee.


Reaffirming its commitment to bring robotics to all young people to increase their interest in science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) careers, FIRST®, the leader in after school robotics competitions for K-12, today announced a price reduction of $1,000.00 for Veteran teams in its high-school program, the FIRST Robotics Competition (FRC). This represents a 17 percent reduction in the initial registration cost for the upcoming 2010 season for Veteran teams compared to last year.



The new FRC prices are effective immediately.



In 2009 FIRST created a technology roadmap for FRC which included the use of certain technically advanced parts from one year to the next. In 2010, the organization is able to deliver on this technology roadmap promise by reducing the cost of Veteran team registration fees to a level that represents the re-use of certain Kit of Parts (KoP) components while delivering new components including an upgraded Driver’s Station with a classmate PC.



With this price reduction -- a fee rollback equal to the 2000-2004 season’s’ pricing-- the organization has also made significant strides in cost controls for the new season which allows FIRST to pass cost reductions on to the Veteran teams.



Highlights of the new fee structure include:



· The registration fee for FIRST Robotics Competition (FRC) Veteran teams will be $5000.00 for the 2010 season. This represents a reduction of $1000.00 from the price during each of the past five seasons, and is due in large part to the design and reuse of the new control system introduced this past year;



· The FRC registration fee for Rookie teams will be increased to $6500.00. This represents the cost differential of $1,500.00 for key items from the 2009 KoP – including the cRio - which all Rookie teams will receive;



· All FRC Rookie teams will receive a $1,000.00 grant for the 2010 season. This grant is to be applied to the overall registration fee, so that the effective cost for Rookie teams is $5500.00, a $500.00 decrease from the actual 2009 season price of $6,000.00 which had applied to all FRC teams at that time;



· All Veteran FRC teams are able to reuse several key components from last year’s Kit of Parts, including the cRio control system developed by National Instruments (NI) and other specific control system components, thus enabling FIRST to reduce the cost for participation in the upcoming season for Veteran teams; and



· All FRC teams registered for the 2010 season will receive a new Kit of Parts with hundreds of components including a new classmate PC. Each FRC team will also have the ability to purchase additional “re-usable” components from the 2009 KoP if they wish. Information on how and where to purchase additional parts will be provided to teams in the near future.





In these difficult times, FIRST is foremost dedicated to its mission to expose students to hands-on science, engineering and technology. FIRST Founder, Dean Kamen’s continued commitment to this mission is evidenced again this year with a donation of grant monies to assist FRC Rookie Teams with the registration fee. Mr. Kamen will make the $1000.00 donation to FIRST for each new Rookie team that joins the FRC program this season.



Prices for the current season for all other FIRST robotics programs will remain the same as last year and pricing for additional FIRST FRC “plays” and the FIRST Championship remain the same as last year.



Initial Event Registration opens on October 1, 2009.
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  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-08-2009, 20:49
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Re: FRC 2010 Registration fees reduced

Some teams - those who got a second system last year - will benefit, as will rookie teams (this year at least). Teams with one cRio who want a second one won't benefit, but are not terribly hurt, either. That's not a majority of teams - greatest good for greatest number.

Assuming you know the financials of the situation, what would you do differently?

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Different challenge: Let's recruit enough rookie teams so Dean has to part with a cool million - I honestly think he'd be thrilled!
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Unread 06-08-2009, 02:33
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Re: FRC 2010 Registration fees reduced

Has FIRST come out and said your second cRIO is not discounted this year? Because if it is, you have a net savings of $250, assuming nothing else is cut from the kit. No problem with that in my opinion.
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Unread 06-08-2009, 09:16
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Re: FRC 2010 Registration fees reduced

A laptop PC as the driverstation. I hope this isn't the Ds but just a screen. It could quite possibly the worst idea I've heard in a long time. If theres anything wrong with the laptop or the Program people could be seriously injured. Making mistakes pretty much isn't an option. I know you could make the argument that that could happen with every driver station but not like this, before the switch killed communications by just cutting the signal, if the Dongle Enable/Disable is a USB and the USB port isn't working and without any knowledge of such there could be injuries.
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Unread 06-08-2009, 09:23
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Re: FRC 2010 Registration fees reduced

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyTNT280 View Post
A laptop PC as the driverstation. This is quite possibly the worst idea I've heard in a long time. If theres anything wrong with the laptop or the Program people could be seriously injured. Making mistakes pretty much isn't an option. I know you could make the argument that that could happen with every driver station but not like this, before the switch killed communications by just cutting the signal, if the Dongle Enable/Disable is a USB and the USB port isn't working and without any knowledge of such there could be injuries.
The good news is that if the robot does not detect a signal, or if the DS does not receive a specific "enable" command, it defaults to disabled. Any failures in the laptop are basically equally as likely to occur in any hardware DS. Also, the disable switch did not kill the signal, it simply closed a contact that told the DS in software to stop the robots.

In fact, the DS from last year was essentially a low-power computer running an OS with a bunch of software to control a robot. To me, this sounds like a laptop. FIRST probably decided to go with a laptop this year because it's only marginally more expensive than a normal DS, is much sturdier, and requires little to no R&D money.

A virtual driver station should be just as safe as a "hardware" driver station.
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Unread 19-08-2009, 22:50
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Re: FRC 2010 Registration fees reduced

Sigh.... and we had made it so hard to take the cRio off last year's robot
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