As an objective reader, here is my sincere opinions...

[Ken Leung]

As a general reader of this site, and someone who’s interested in discussion in general more so than specific issues… here is my sincere opinions.

Two obliviously things have been happening: A lot of different view points coming up, and tons of arguments going on. Seems like we are too busy arguing that some of us concentrate too much into the arguments itself, and others of us got overwhelmed by all the strong comments flying back and forth… And finally, the debate is stopped by a method none of us wish to see.

Look. We all understand there is no simple right or wrong to those complicated issues, that is why these forum exist… Rather than simple using phrases such as “yes I wholeheartedly agree” or “no you are not correct”, we use this place to express what we think, and share the thoughts with others (which is also know as the 2 cents, although I always think that thoughts deserver much more credit then 2 cents). And a lot of us have different things in mind. Just because mine is different than yours doesn’t mean one of us is right and the other is wrong, it take a lot more factors to determine that… Sometimes both sides are right because they are talking about their own situation, and neither one can accurately apply to the other… Right and wrong aren’t most important anyway…

We all want different things out of FIRST, so we should stick together as much as possible to make this program more successful than ever. Big arguments will only get in the way of that.

Argument vs. Discussion

In a discussion, the people express their point of view, and others join in and express theirs as well. Afterward, the people understand (or at least try to) WHY others have a different view, they look through the facts in front of them, learn from other’s thought, and determine if they want to change their own view… And finally form a few conclusions about their discussion, and leave happily.

In an argument, however, I see people express their opinions, then some others join in and talk about why those opinions are wrong, and express what’s right. The two group then pick flaws out of the other’s statement, and form the statement “ours are right because yours are wrong” instead of saying “here is why I think differently, but I also understand your way”. Through out the arguments people miss some of the side points the others are trying to make because they are too focused into arguing. Then, even though a lot of people didn’t mean it, their messages come out forcing opinions into others. Eventually both side got so strong headed that none of them would ever change their view and accept the other view.

...


Pick out incorrect facts? Fine. Talk about what you think? Fine… But please do not concentrate on finding errors in others’ statement. It’s becoming too much of a burden if we are constantly checking on what’s right or wrong, and argue about them. Talk about the different points… Tell people how it’s different in your perspective… Be considerate about other’s trouble… And don’t be so negative from time to time. This place is used to inspire others to think from all different views.

I am really disappointed at how some of the discussion turns into argument, and that someone’s voice are shut out just because they are uncommon… It is completely unfair to people with unique voices when we flood the forum with our common ones, and tell them that they should not argue with us just because theirs are rare… No one should change what he or she thinks just because they are the minority.

Posters around here came from all over the country. That is why this place is so valuable, because we get to learn from other places. What happens in one place doesn’t mean it will happen in another. You can certainly talk about how things work in your place and suggest it to others, but should not assume it’s the same in others.

Different speculation and different way of thinking is totally ok. Sometimes they sound extreme and negative, but it only mean how much the poster care about that issues. The fact that someone is that angry shows how important the issue is to them. We the participants are a big part of FIRST, and we all have great respects for this program, that is why we are so involved in the first place… So, just because we question some of FIRST’s decision doesn’t mean we are up challenging them. FIRST is great at running this competition, but teams also gained tons of experience through years of competition. That is why teams attended team forum every year and gave some of the greatest suggestions to FIRST.

I really hope that we can just get along with each other… Maybe all it take is a little more listening and less fault picking… and a little toleration and consideration to others about their trouble and frustration… Maybe this will work out if we keep an open mind and accept the different voices, no matter how quiet they sound…

Well, maybe I am just being too naïve and ideal…

[Tom Fairchild]

Amen. That's all I really have to say.

~Tom~, who couldn't dream of putting it better than Ken did.

[Wayne Doenges]

I agree wholeheartedly with Ken.
I too have gotten into an argument and not seen the other persons side.
I wish to publicly appologize to Nick Norton for any misunderstandings or hard feelings that I may have caused with my remarks. I just got caught up.
We all need to step back and think about what we are saying before we commit our thoughts to this forum.
Nerves are a little raw since 9/11/01 and I don't see any relief anytime soon.

Let's have fun out there.

Wayne Doenges

[Bill Gold]

Great post Ken. I've wanted to say something like that for a week or so, but haven't had the guts to do so.

[Joe Johnson]

Ken,

For a long time you have been a voice of reason and grace.

This forum and the entire FIRST community are fortunate to have you around.

Hats off to you.

Joe J.

[Shelley_delphi chick]

..............


Thank you !!! Many people including myself get on here and wish to chit chat about robotics topics in which I know somewhat about. People take things way to serious and they think that other teams aren't having the same concerns or questions. In the end they will ALL figure something out and have a great year, juts like the last. So, I appologize if I came off a total b*tc^.........


Shelley



P.S..... please excuse the unlady like last word.

[Carolyn Duncan]

*bows down to Ken*
Leave it to Ken to point out something we all need to realize. You rock Ken! I can't say it enough. I guess I will use my typical statement ans say "mad props to Ken." I think with as much as I use that I need to get it trademarked. What do you think Ken? Maybe I'll write it on my t-shirt for comps. Thanks again, Ken.

[Jeff Waegelin]

Bravo. I couldn't have said it better myself. I hope that everyone can see this post and take its advice to heart.

[whsrt_lilguppy]

You're absolutely right, Ken! Finally, the voice of reason!

Ken, somebody should definitely knight you. You are the soft-toned voice of reason heard over a bickering crowd. The King of ChiefDelphi (Brandon, is it?) should proclaim you a Knight of his Mainframe. You, sir, are a golden god.

[Torchin]

A few days back I wrong a big long post about why I love Ken Leung....I hope now you understand why, if you (somehow) didn't already. He did the same kind of things (pointing out better ways to do things) all the time I've worked with him.

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Have you hugged your Ken today?

Isn't it just fun to embarrass Ken by giving him a BIG hug? Deep down you know he likes it though