[BB] So, what about the Classmate?

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Molten

So, anyone think this might translate to cheaper kits? It only seems fair.

They are cheaper this year. Registration is only $5000 for veteran teams this year.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

They are cheaper this year. Registration is only $5000 for veteran teams this year.

Glad to hear it. I really should follow Bill's blog.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

They are cheaper this year. Registration is only $5000 for veteran teams this year.

But we have to buy $1500 worth of stuff to get the same kit we had last year.

Isn't progress great?

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by Cory

But we have to buy $1500 worth of stuff to get the same kit we had last year.

Isn't progress great?

One would guess that either
1. FIRST was getting more of a discount on the parts than they are passing onto us (ie maybe they got compressors for free??)
or
2. FIRST is actually making out on this deal... paying less for the kit, but passing on a lesser savings to us (ie reaping the $500 towards their own use... Im seriously hoping they are using that to build up their grant program)

Either way... I'm not a fan of the withholding/reuse... I would rather see teams have the election option (ie my team would pay the $6K to get a new controller and all those parts, other teams could elect to save the $1K and not get them).

[Molten]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

I would rather see teams have the election option (ie my team would pay the $6K to get a new controller and all those parts, other teams could elect to save the $1K and not get them).

I like this idea. I'd probably elect for the savings, but I'd like other teams to get to choose.

Also, my guess is with the current economy...some companies aren't willing to make such good deals for such a big quantity and the amount FIRST pays for the parts went up. So, they had to increase the cost of the kit to $6500. However they decided to allow a discount for teams that could afford to do without the part and Dean pitched in the money to make it fair for rookies.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

One would guess that either
1. FIRST was getting more of a discount on the parts than they are passing onto us (ie maybe they got compressors for free??)
or
2. FIRST is actually making out on this deal... paying less for the kit, but passing on a lesser savings to us (ie reaping the $500 towards their own use... Im seriously hoping they are using that to build up their grant program)

Either way... I'm not a fan of the withholding/reuse... I would rather see teams have the election option (ie my team would pay the $6K to get a new controller and all those parts, other teams could elect to save the $1K and not get them).

Don't forget that it's $6,500, in reality. Costs increased, but by withholding pieces of hardware, FIRST is able to reduce what we're paying at the same time as they reduce what we receive. It's no great bargain.

[Trent B]

Im kinda surprised to see that the battery charger is one of the items on the list to get reused, granted quite a few teams have their own complex battery charging systems which they may not even use the kit chargers in.

[a kenny03]

just because nobody has said much... im going to put my 2 cents in...
point 1: the Classmate IS CRAP!!! the P.O.S.(i hope you know the acronym) takes forever to boot, can't function, and barely counts as a computer! at least the old driver station told you what was wrong, not just a blank screen...
point 2: i dont like the veteran "discount" thing this year. our team uses the majority of the components that come in the K.O.P.(except if we don't use pneumatics), and we like to have functional robots to showcase(like a robot with a cRIO, for example. we are going to be gutting our lunacy bot soon). showcasing gets us funds, and without a robot, it is hard to show a sponsor or the school board(which is FIRST illiterate) what we do. so no robot = no sponsors = no money = no team
so, i do like the opting out or in, and the "i want this in my kit" checklist.
maybe instead of custom kits we could all get the necesities and order the other things a team needs based on what they want. maybe a special promotional code???

[lynca]

Originally Posted by Cory

But we have to buy $1500 worth of stuff to get the same kit we had last year.

Isn't progress great?

I'm not happy about the re-use idea. But I like the price drop.

2011: $4000
2012: $3000
2013: $2000
2014: $2000
....
2030: $2000 (this would be the optimal saturation point ! )

However I hope that price of re-using everything continues to go down until its about $2000 to register for FRC . This would be the magic number to help FRC expand tremendously. Any other guesses for the ideal Registration Fee cost?

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by lynca

I'm not happy about the re-use idea. But I like the price drop.

2011: $4000
2012: $3000
2013: $2000
2014: $2000
....
2030: $2000 (this would be the optimal saturation point ! )

However I hope that price of re-using everything continues to go down until its about $2000 to register for FRC . This would be the magic number to help FRC expand tremendously. Any other guesses for the ideal Registration Fee cost?

I don't understand this at all unless you plan on gutting every robot you have....

[Molten]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I don't understand this at all unless you plan on gutting every robot you have....

Or allow people to just buy the parts they want with a few less restrictions. I can't tell you how much stuff comes in the kits that goes completely unused.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Molten

Or allow people to just buy the parts they want with a few less restrictions. I can't tell you how much stuff comes in the kits that goes completely unused.

The components you are referring to I believe, but am not entirely sure, are donated (lead screws etc.. etc..). The real expensive items that FIRST pays for are in the control system, which we have to use.

[Akash Rastogi]

When we checked out this email today with our mentors they were frankly, pretty upset. One going as far as to call this "BS on FIRST's part."

So much for that 1K "price drop."

[sarcasm]I know, let's just buy the things we actually need afterward and pay a much higher price for it! Because that will definitely solve the budget problems most teams have. Better yet, rip it all out from old robots!

Cory, you're absolutely right! This progress is great! [/sarcasm]

[Molten]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

The components you are referring to I believe, but am not entirely sure, are donated (lead screws etc.. etc..). The real expensive items that FIRST pays for are in the control system, which we have to use.

The components I was referring to include: the excess of motors, air compressors given to all teams(when many don't use them), the kitbot frame(the majority don't use this), the tracking cam(which seems to only be used by half on a good year), and various other odds and ends.

If all of this is donated, I take back everything I said. However, even if it is donated...it is still a huge waste for all of us teams to get that much stuff that just goes to waste. Not to mention all the batteries teams accumulate over the years that they couldn't reuse because of certain rules. I'm not necessarily saying this on a pricing viewpoint. Just on a wasteful view point.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Molten

The components I was referring to include: the excess of motors, air compressors given to all teams(when many don't use them), the kitbot frame(the majority don't use this), the tracking cam(which seems to only be used by half on a good year), and various other odds and ends.

If all of this is donated, I take back everything I said. However, even if it is donated...it is still a huge waste for all of us teams to get that much stuff that just goes to waste. Not to mention all the batteries teams accumulate over the years that they couldn't reuse because of certain rules. I'm not necessarily saying this on a pricing viewpoint. Just on a wasteful view point.

Easy (easier said than done) solution would be for each (veteran) team to determine what major components they'll need/not need (such as the AM Frame) during registration before the season or in TIMS?