[BB] So, what about the Classmate?

[EricVanWyk]

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2009...classmate.html

Thoughts?

[EricH]

It's an interesting list of stuff that won't be in veteran teams' kits. I don't think some of it will hurt at all, like the joysticks, because there are plenty of USB joysticks out there. But the one that got me was the compressor. The control system was expected; we've been told about that for at least a year. But the compressor? I just hope that they give a link to a place that can supply them, just in case of one breaking. (Note: I don't know of a single compressor failing since they were introduced to FRC. That's a pretty good record of reliability...)

[Chris is me]

So the document Bill linked to would say the new team 47-65 or whatever it ends up as would retain Hall of Fame status, but not necessarily championship elgibility as that's determined by number? Bit of a sidetrack though.

The parts they want us to reuse seem completely reasonable. It'd be nice if we could keep the 2009 driver station completely together, but the teams that preserve robots to demonstrate and drive around are the same teams that can afford to drop a few dollars here and there on replacement joysticks (or didn't use them at all). The KoP joysticks this year were excellent, though.

Classmate PC is a fine replacement for the Driver Station. Hopefully there will be less dead Ethernet ports and electrical shorts. Touchscreen autonomous options as well as other fun control stuff, the possibilities could be endless there.

I'm glad for the electronic Consent forms, in case I don't get to a 1714 meeting before Kickoff.

[JesseK]

It only has 2 USB ports...

Not sure how this will affect teams who use 2 joysticks and/or a custom button board setup. Eventually teams will overcome this with custom circuitry. Eventually.

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by EricH

But the one that got me was the compressor. The control system was expected; we've been told about that for at least a year. But the compressor? I just hope that they give a link to a place that can supply them, just in case of one breaking. (Note: I don't know of a single compressor failing since they were introduced to FRC. That's a pretty good record of reliability...)

They withheld the compressor from the KOP for veterans once before.
As I recall we only whined because we had to disable an older robot to reuse it's compressor, and that's already going to be happening for most teams as the control system comes off.

I've seen compressors damaged from overtightening the emergency pressure relief valve thus cracking the case, and others succumb to general abuse, but I haven't had one wear out. We have one that started working intermittently a couple of years ago, probably due to a bad thermal switch.
I doubt obtaining replacements will be an issue (Thomas Industries 405ADC38/12).
It is $314 though, so I can see the savings for FIRST HQ ($314 x 1677 = $526,578 w/o bulk discount or donation - equivalent to the registration fees for 105 teams):
http://www.drillspot.com/products/35..._Va cuum_Pump
http://cfpwarehouse.com/shopsite_sc/...mpressors.html (pictures wrong but price is better @ $266)

Refurbish an old one for $108: http://www.mastertoolrepair.com/405adc3812-p-4070.html

P.S. Somebody in Lockport, NY sold one on eBay for $108

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by JesseK

It only has 2 USB ports...

Not sure how this will affect teams who use 2 joysticks and/or a custom button board setup. Eventually teams will overcome this with custom circuitry. Eventually.

Originally Posted by Bill's Blog

The Classmate will be the primary feature of the 2010 Driver Station (connected to some other items to be revealed later).

(emphasis added).

USB hubs are cheap and readily available. Don't forget that NI makes USB analog and DIO data acquisition devices. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the burden would be on the teams.

[Mark McLeod]

I wonder how long it takes to boot the classmate?
Nothing like holding up a match while we wait for a reboot.

I can see batteries flagging at inopportune times without power at the driver stations.
If they don't supply power I think I'll look at carrying a few spare charged batteries for teams.

[Molten]

So, anyone think this might translate to cheaper kits? It only seems fair.

[Akash Rastogi]

It wouldn't have to be the specific 09 compressor would it? I really hope not.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Molten

So, anyone think this might translate to cheaper kits? It only seems fair.

They are cheaper this year. Registration is only $5000 for veteran teams this year.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

They are cheaper this year. Registration is only $5000 for veteran teams this year.

Glad to hear it. I really should follow Bill's blog.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

They are cheaper this year. Registration is only $5000 for veteran teams this year.

But we have to buy $1500 worth of stuff to get the same kit we had last year.

Isn't progress great?

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by Cory

But we have to buy $1500 worth of stuff to get the same kit we had last year.

Isn't progress great?

One would guess that either
1. FIRST was getting more of a discount on the parts than they are passing onto us (ie maybe they got compressors for free??)
or
2. FIRST is actually making out on this deal... paying less for the kit, but passing on a lesser savings to us (ie reaping the $500 towards their own use... Im seriously hoping they are using that to build up their grant program)

Either way... I'm not a fan of the withholding/reuse... I would rather see teams have the election option (ie my team would pay the $6K to get a new controller and all those parts, other teams could elect to save the $1K and not get them).

[Molten]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

I would rather see teams have the election option (ie my team would pay the $6K to get a new controller and all those parts, other teams could elect to save the $1K and not get them).

I like this idea. I'd probably elect for the savings, but I'd like other teams to get to choose.

Also, my guess is with the current economy...some companies aren't willing to make such good deals for such a big quantity and the amount FIRST pays for the parts went up. So, they had to increase the cost of the kit to $6500. However they decided to allow a discount for teams that could afford to do without the part and Dean pitched in the money to make it fair for rookies.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

One would guess that either
1. FIRST was getting more of a discount on the parts than they are passing onto us (ie maybe they got compressors for free??)
or
2. FIRST is actually making out on this deal... paying less for the kit, but passing on a lesser savings to us (ie reaping the $500 towards their own use... Im seriously hoping they are using that to build up their grant program)

Either way... I'm not a fan of the withholding/reuse... I would rather see teams have the election option (ie my team would pay the $6K to get a new controller and all those parts, other teams could elect to save the $1K and not get them).

Don't forget that it's $6,500, in reality. Costs increased, but by withholding pieces of hardware, FIRST is able to reduce what we're paying at the same time as they reduce what we receive. It's no great bargain.