FCAT dilemma -- your opinion?

[VEI Dude]

Hi all,

I mentor team 1889 (formerly the Haze, but new name chosen and will be announced when we have a logo in South Florida. Our regional would be the Orlando one, but the FCAT blackout period is always an issue, and this year the school officials were apparently not happy that many students went anyway, and a memo was just sent out stating that there will be absolutely no travel outside of the county during the FCAT period anymore. So what are the options?

(1) Ignore the school's mandate? Nope.

(2) Go to a different regional? It'd be a much longer drive and I expect we'll only get a small showing from our team. Yes, I know that teams come from other countries, but I'm being realistic based on what parents have stated already, etc.

(3) Form the club outside of the school? Major issues there, such as finding a space to work, being able to fundraise at school (which is a good revenue source for us). Costs would go up, and money is already an issue for us.

(4) Go to another competition grade (FTC or another competition altogether)? I'd love to hear about other competitions you know of that may be interesting and challenging.

(5) < insert other idea here >

Would love to hear thoughts on this, other than ignoring the school and going anyway. We'd really like to keep the robotics program going at this school, and the competitions are a great goal. We're going to start our own small-scale in-house competitions, but would definitely want to participate in something bigger, so if you know of other robotics competitions, do spill the beans. Other ideas welcome too.

Cheers,
-Neil.

[IBdrummer]

BTW for out of state readers FCAT(florida comprehensive assesment test) is a standardized test given from 3-11th grade to test basic skills needed to move up to the next grade.

I had the issue of Science FCAT Junior year interfering with UCF. While we were allowed to go by our school policy, I doubt it would've kept us from going anyways.

As a team, I would go to the school board and discuss the problem that your team, as well as others, has in not going to that regional. If you don't address the problem early on in the school year then you might run into the problem of reversing the policy. If you can convey the message that there aren't any options for the team otherwise, you may be able to convince them to make an exception.

Individually, if it comes to it, I'd look into the make up policy for FCAT. For students who aren't always well beyond the benchmark I wouldn't suggest it, but if they're comfortably in the passing range, it shouldn't be to much of a trouble.

[ATannahill]

Usually math and reading are on the Tuesday and Wednesday before the Florida regional, science FCAT, only taken by juniors, is usually on Thursday. Last year, the science FCAT mysteriously got moved to the week, I don't know why or what extent of Florida had the change. So, still talk to your administrators and see what you can get.

[Warren Boudreau]

Get with 179 (SwampThing) and 1523 (MARS) and organize a coordinated response. They will be affected by any rulings.

[VEI Dude]

Thanks, but not actually the direction I'm looking for. In previous years, the previous mentor addressed this with the school, and for 2009, I addressed it with the school. We found a great workaround, which is that the students would go on Friday (which is a make up day), and any students who need a make up will not go. But after taking it to the heads of the school district, they said that only seniors could go (and it was a battle to do even this). We recruited more seniors, but they didn't come to most meetings, didn't know the rules well, etc. And because non-seniors came up for the competition on Friday (they're parents just called them in sick), the school was unhappy and has really laid down the law now. It does not matter if it does not affect the FCAT scores, etc -- they've laid down the law now, citing the official definition of FCAT blackout, and that's that. I know 179 just goes anyway, but we can't do that, and it's not a good message for the students.

Really, I was hoping for some answers with different competitions, etc. Right now, I'm planning to meet with the team & parents to see if going to another regional out of state would be a good option, but ad money is an issue, adding expenses for an out-of-state trip is a bummer.

Cheers,
-Neil.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by VEI Dude

(5) < insert other idea here >

Move one or the other so there is no conflict. Get the Regional Planning Committee in touch with the FCAT folks to work something out. Details are left as an exercise for the student advocates...

[EricH]

I'm with Alan. Remember, the regional dates have not been released yet, so it's quite possible that there won't be a conflict, or that you can get something moved.

If the school sponsors the team, you could always pull the "OK, we'll go somewhere else, then" card--and ask them to help pay the extra travel cost, deal with the extra day or so of absence per student, and other things that necessarily ensue due to students being absent on a trip to another state. I'm not sure they'd like that financially, and so would be more inclined to work with you to find an acceptable workaround. Also note to them that competition performance will be negatively affected due to the reasons you've stated. I'm sure they'd just love a school-supported team not doing well because they sent it out with a fraction of the resources that they could have sent...

[Molten]

I've heard nothing but good things about BEST and BattlebotsIQ. If you can't resolve the issues in ways mentioned above, I'd look into either of those. And before anyone starts yet another Battlebots vs. FIRST thread. I am not implying either is better or worse then the other. Just that they can be good alternatives.

[Tom Bishop]

BEST is a good competition, and it happens in the fall, so it would not interfere with the testing. We did it for four years, but stopped. It was just too much for this mentor doing builds for both FIRST and BEST Now we do off-seasons in the fall.

With BEST you really have to get creative because you only get a kit of parts and you have to use only those materials, plus a few extras, and 4 motors. At least those where the restrictions when we did it.

Otherwise, Peachtree, Palmetto and New Orleans are right up the road (10 hours or so)

[VEI Dude]

Originally Posted by EricH

I'm with Alan. Remember, the regional dates have not been released yet, so it's quite possible that there won't be a conflict, or that you can get something moved....

I already started down that path and the answer seems pretty firm, that it's based on UCF's spring break period, which is during the FCAT blackout period. Should I petition to change the FCAT dates?... LOL!!!!

I should be cautious about saying this on a public forum, but a big issue here is that the heads of our school are not very interested in this robotics program. Their grading comes from the FCAT scores, not a robotics program. We have an advocate here or there, but not at the very top levels, so threatening to go elsewhere is not much ammo. This has also been a hinderance with some fundraisers. Honestly, I'm done with that battle. As a former project manager, I can say that one of the best things I've learned over time is that if the customers don't want to change their app/way of doing things, then it's no use pushing a new project down their throat.

I'm in discussions with a few other nearby schools to see if they're interested in starting up a robotics program and partnering with our school for the competition. If they seem more motivated to help us push the district to allow us some flexibility with the FCAT dates, we'd officially form the team at that school (and our current students will go over there for meetings, etc). But the response so far has been less than eager.

Okay, so BEST I've not heard of -- I will investigate. I know of battlebots, but the friendly alliance-type FIRST competitions seemed more appealing for the students. For me though, there is a great appeal in sledgehammering into someone else's robot Thanks for the pointers.

Cheers,
-Neil.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by VEI Dude

Okay, so BEST I've not heard of -- I will investigate. I know of battlebots, but the friendly alliance-type FIRST competitions seemed more appealing for the students.

http://www.vexrobotics.com/vex-clean-sweep.shtml

http://robotevents.com/robot-competi...qualifier.html

[Molten]

If I'm not mistaken, I recall Jane being a pretty strong supporter of BEST. I just recall reading a post or two about it.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by VEI Dude

Should I petition to change the FCAT dates?... LOL!!!!

You don't have to demand that the dates be changed across the entire state. Just ask for the flexibility for the robotics students to take them a few days earlier or later so they have the ability to go to the competition.

I can understand the regional being tied to the venue's availability during Spring Break. But why must the FCAT dates be when they are? Is there really anything preventing them from being moved a week one way or the other?

[IBdrummer]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

You don't have to demand that the dates be changed across the entire state. Just ask for the flexibility for the robotics students to take them a few days earlier or later so they have the ability to go to the competition.

I can understand the regional being tied to the venue's availability during Spring Break. But why must the FCAT dates be when they are? Is there really anything preventing them from being moved a week one way or the other?

They're pretty set...there are the state wide dates, and the state wide make up dates
past that there are make ups the following fall, but those are for failures, not retakes

no reschedules though, at least that I know of

[VEI Dude]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

You don't have to demand that the dates be changed across the entire state. Just ask for the flexibility for the robotics students to take them a few days earlier or later so they have the ability to go to the competition. ...

Trust me, that was the battle that was fought last year (for the 2009 competition), and I proved that the dates the students would be out, would not affect them at all (they'd leave Thursday after school, with Friday being a make-up day, and any students who needed a make-up would not go to the competition that day). But they stressed the meaning of "blackout period" and said if it were broken for a few students, then other clubs at school would want exemptions too. We reluctantly got approval for seniors to go, and tried to recruit more seniors, but that became a mess, as those new seniors never came to the meetings and were very unprepared for the competition. I am not about to start this battle again.