[FTC]: FTC Game Announced

[blackiceskier]

this years game is cool and it will make the robots made interesting there is a down side to this years game thought. there are so many penalties and they deduct points for everything, a defnesive game is not really easy to do with out being penalized for it at every turn

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by blackiceskier

this years game is cool and it will make the robots made interesting there is a down side to this years game thought. there are so many penalties and they deduct points for everything, a defnesive game is not really easy to do with out being penalized for it at every turn

That's the whole point of penalties, to discourage behavior that would make the game worse. So I would suggest starting to plan defensive strategy around the penalty book right away.

As for my design ideas... yet again I find myself thinking "perhaps I should just do exactly what 1625 did one year..."

[NalaTI]

Very cool game... and the allowed parts list is pretty intense!

One question though on the allowed parts list
<R5.b.7> Any NXT compatible sensor from HiTechnic, including the NXT Touch Sensor Multiplexer, NXT Sensor Multiplexer <snip>

Does this exist anywhere? It's not available from Hi Technic on their website?

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by NalaTI

Very cool game... and the allowed parts list is pretty intense!

One question though on the allowed parts list
<R5.b.7> Any NXT compatible sensor from HiTechnic, including the NXT Touch Sensor Multiplexer, NXT Sensor Multiplexer <snip>

Does this exist anywhere? It's not available from Hi Technic on their website?

http://parts.ftcrobots.com/store/def...D=163&by=9&c=1

You'll find most of the parts are available on that website.

Originally Posted by Chris is me

That's the whole point of penalties, to discourage behavior that would make the game worse. So I would suggest starting to plan defensive strategy around the penalty book right away.

As for my design ideas... yet again I find myself thinking "perhaps I should just do exactly what 1625 did one year..."

I find myself thinking that a lot but with a couple different team numbers.

[Rick TYler]

In another thread someone said there is a new chain-and-sprocket set available. I don't see it on the LEGO/Pitsco/Tetrix/FTC Website. Can anyone point me to this?

Another rumor I heard is that there is a new version of the motor speed controller which includes current limiting to reduce the number of burned out motors (anyone want to buy a one-gallon Ziploc full of 12-volt paperweights?). Anyone have facts? I'm not all that thrilled about spending over $400 to replace all our controllers, but if that's what it takes to reduce what we spend to replace burned out motors it might be worth it.

Thanks in advance.

[Akash Rastogi]

Hehehehe....RC and I were excited enough for this game to even do a collab on this. Should be extremely fun.

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

In another thread someone said there is a new chain-and-sprocket set available. I don't see it on the LEGO/Pitsco/Tetrix/FTC Website. Can anyone point me to this?

Another rumor I heard is that there is a new version of the motor speed controller which includes current limiting to reduce the number of burned out motors (anyone want to buy a one-gallon Ziploc full of 12-volt paperweights?). Anyone have facts? I'm not all that thrilled about spending over $400 to replace all our controllers, but if that's what it takes to reduce what we spend to replace burned out motors it might be worth it.

Thanks in advance.

The new Chain-sprocket set might be the VEX ones, I don't think there are any ones for FTC, yet.

I haven't heard the second rumor.

[ptan]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

Another rumor I heard is that there is a new version of the motor speed controller which includes current limiting to reduce the number of burned out motors (anyone want to buy a one-gallon Ziploc full of 12-volt paperweights?). Anyone have facts? I'm not all that thrilled about spending over $400 to replace all our controllers, but if that's what it takes to reduce what we spend to replace burned out motors it might be worth it.
.

We're willing to buy up any used motor speed controllers from anybody if they are trading up as long as they are still in working condition (offer also is open anyone that is moving to vex permanently).

[jefft]

See attached for the picture of the chain and sprocket set.
They are still finalizing it.. should be available for sale shortly.. (I didn't get a definite date).

[Lowfategg]

Originally Posted by jefft

See attached for the picture of the chain and sprocket set.
They are still finalizing it.. should be available for sale shortly.. (I didn't get a definite date).

Now that is what I call chain and sprockets! Looks like #25 chain to me. Those sprockets might be useful on FRC robots as well, since they look to be made of aluminum (lightweight).

[ttldomination]

HOLY CRAP

CHAIN AND SPROCKET. ... I want to cry....

[Chris is me]

Those chains and sprockets look much more able to withstand the forces of a drivetrain than the Vex kit, which screwed me over during my hasty rebuild in 2008 :/ (I didn't test it, my bad). Good job Tetrix. If there's one thing I like about the FTC kit, it's metal gears (and now chain)

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Those chains and sprockets look much more able to withstand the forces of a drivetrain than the Vex kit, which screwed me over during my hasty rebuild in 2008

You are right, #25 steel chain is going to be stronger than a little plastic chain. It's also going to be greasier, heavier, more expense, take up more room, and be harder to install and size. The right part for the right job. I suspect the decision to use standard #25 chain (if that is what it is) has a lot more to do with finding an off-the-shelf part that doesn't require engineering, test and manufacturing than it does with providing the perfect technical solution for our robots. The advantage is lower cost than if they had custom-made a metal chain.

VRC 418 had the little VEX chains in its drivetrain and went through two tournaments and the World Championships without a single failure. They were finalists in the Technology Division.

VRC 417 had the little VEX chains in its drivetrain and went through two tournaments and the World Championships without a single failure.

VRC 575 had the little VEX chains in its drivetrain and went through three tournaments and the World Championships without a single failure. They won the Think Award, came in second place in the World Championships Programming Skills Challenge, and had the highest recorded competition score of the year in PSC. You can see a pretty good picture of the drivetrain here: http://www.vexforum.com/gallery/show...rchid= 347651.

Given the yards of #35 chain I've seen on the floor of FRC fields over the years, I'd conclude that it is entirely unsuited to drivetrains, too.

It's not the chains, it's how they are used. They are poorly suited for a heavy-lift application, but we've had terrific luck with them in drivetrains, and for "medium lift." In 2007 we used them to drive the lifting mechanism for the softballs, and they never failed (frankly, I was surprised).

As you mentioned in your post -- testing is good.

[Lowfategg]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

You are right, #25 steel chain is going to be stronger than a little plastic chain. It's also going to be greasier, heavier, more expense, take up more room, and be harder to install and size. The right part for the right job. I suspect the decision to use standard #25 chain (if that is what it is) has a lot more to do with finding an off-the-shelf part that doesn't require engineering, test and manufacturing than it does with providing the perfect technical solution for our robots. The advantage is lower cost than if they had custom-made a metal chain.

#25 chain is vastly stronger than vex chain. (114 lb load)

Greasier? If its greasier that means less friction and less wear. (unless you are afraid of getting your hands a little dirty)

Heavier? Last time I check, more weight means more traction. For the bonus stronger chain add, its a non-issue.

More expensive? 4 ft of vex chain $14.95, Mcmaster 4 ft #25 chain $12.96

Take up more room? Its stronger than vex chain so you don't need to double it up like you do in vex.

The fact that kids are now using industry standard parts is a good thing! I believe using steel chain is a great idea for FTC, we used its extensively on our drive base this year for FRC without a single failure. You are almost never going to see those sorts of loads in FTC.

I still love vex though. Every system has its flaws and its benefits. Whether it be VRC or FTC, they are both great programs.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

You are right, #25 steel chain is going to be stronger than a little plastic chain. It's also going to be greasier, heavier, more expense, take up more room, and be harder to install and size. The right part for the right job. I suspect the decision to use standard #25 chain (if that is what it is) has a lot more to do with finding an off-the-shelf part that doesn't require engineering, test and manufacturing than it does with providing the perfect technical solution for our robots. The advantage is lower cost than if they had custom-made a metal chain.

I carefully worded my post to avoid saying "better", since in many applications I'd prefer a tiny chain (e.g. my robot's end effector would suck without it), but for heavy, pushing drivetrains (think Quad Quandry, super geared down) it didn't really cut it for my team. Certainly didn't help that I didn't tension the chain very well, but even after fixing that I ended up throwing chain a lot.