[BB]: Regional Variations & Bagging It

[Mark McLeod]

Bill's Blog has details on compressed Regionals (Pittsburgh & Sacramento)
Bagging the robot for non-Michagan events, etc.
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2009...days-post.html

[Zflash]

"Oregon, Bayou, Florida, Pittsburgh, WPI, Utah, Connecticut, Colorado, Las Vegas, Sacramento, North Carolina, Michigan State Championship and possibly a few others, will all explore methods of providing the same high-energy, high-quality experience of a Traditional FRC Regional Event without the same expense."

Above is From Bill's Blog, could this mean that the above listed events will (should) have a cheaper registration fee?

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Zflash

"Oregon, Bayou, Florida, Pittsburgh, WPI, Utah, Connecticut, Colorado, Las Vegas, Sacramento, North Carolina, Michigan State Championship and possibly a few others, will all explore methods of providing the same high-energy, high-quality experience of a Traditional FRC Regional Event without the same expense."

Above is From Bill's Blog, could this mean that the above listed events will (should) have a cheaper registration fee?

It might mean more in terms of how the events are set up. They may buy/rent fewer things at these regionals as other regionals have done recently.

IE: smaller practice field, no practice field, no sponsor banners, less extra lighting/A/V equipment?

Sounds interesting though.

What I'm wondering is how it works if a team is attending one of the "bagged" regionals and then is attending another regional after that. Do they ship it in a crate right after the first "bagged" event or do they ship it in the bag?

[Zflash]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

What I'm wondering is how it works if a team is attending one of the "bagged" regionals and then is attending another regional after that. Do they ship it in a crate right after the first "bagged" event or do they ship it in the bag?

"Teams going from one of the “Bag and Tag” events to another Regional Event or to the FIRST Championship will take their robots home to crate them for FEDEx pickup and shipment to the next event." Bill's Blog


If it is a back to back event then this could be interesting.

[Chris is me]

Did you guys not see the great happy paragraph in there? 10 qualification matches! All of your favorite seeding nightmares should at the very least happen way less often. We all get more play time, and my experience leads me to think more play time makes everything better. Running 9 qualification matches at Minnesota was really fun and more or less made the Top 8 very accurate.

If this extends to the Championship, perhaps the occasional good-but-not-the-best "floated robots" will be less and less common.

[Cory]

I hope there aren't any US teams interested in going to Canada.

My understanding is that these events won't be any cheaper for you to attend-they will just feature non-Sargent AV, less volunteer perks, etc, etc. I sure hope FIRST has some sort of minimum standard they intend to enforce for quality.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

IE: smaller practice field, no practice field, no sponsor banners, less extra lighting/A/V equipment?

Sounds interesting though.

I can't speak for the other regionals, but I bet the WPI Regional is probably going to be just as good, if not better, in production quality than not only some of the "cheaper" Regionals, but also some of the "traditional" Regionals, yet for a fraction of the expense. They've already been doing it for years, with BattleCry@WPI.





WPI has a lot of resources internally on our campus, like Lights and Lens or two fully stocked machine shops with 2 manual mills, 2 manual lathes, and 12 CNC machines within 500 yards of the competition venue or our own campus police, etc.

Actually, the more I think about it, the idea behind to moving a large number of Regionals from convention centers and sports arenas to college sports arenas makes a ton of sense.

Convention centers and sports stadiums don't really have anything to gain from having lots of motivated high school students in attendance, other than the earning money from the rent part. But colleges have a lot to gain from having lots of motivated high school college students on their campus. Colleges would most likely be a lot more motivated to get the expenses down while getting more fun and excitement out of the event, as this excitement would likely correlate well with the student's perception of the school.

Nearly everyone in FRC needs to go to college before they'll become an engineer, scientist, or entrepreneur aspiring to change the world. Lots of colleges offer existing FIRST scholarships, but a large number remain unclaimed. By hosting a regional, this gives students a chance to really get to know a college, and I'd surmise would make them more motivated to apply for potential scholarships offered by the school hosting the regional.

Win for students, win for colleges, win for FIRST.

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Did you guys not see the great happy paragraph in there? 10 qualification matches!

This isn't really anything new. FIRST has been marketing it as something new and great and exciting, but the reality is that smaller events with 30-40 teams in attendance have been offering 10-13 qualification matches for many years now. I distinctly remember the 2005 UTC New England regional having about 35 teams, with each team competing in 12 qualification matches.

The number of matches is (and always has been) inversely related to the number of teams in attendance.

Shrink the number of teams, increase number of matches.

[Fe_Will]

"Several Regional Events will be piloting a variety of cost effective measures this year. Oregon... will all explore methods of providing the same high-energy, high-quality experience of a Traditional FRC Regional Event without the same expense. Our hope is to find ways to continue to hold costs down in the future by using locally procured and implemented resources."

Do we get a reduced fee or just less for what we are paying for?

For the record Oregon has never had a more than a few elements that teams have brought to practice (no Practice field for at least the past 6 years). We haven't had sponsor banners for at least one year and maybe longer (logos are projected between matches on the screen). So I really wonder how much less we are going to get this year...

I'd really like to see the plan for Crate Regional -> Bag & Tag Regional -> Championship

[Zflash]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

It might mean more in terms of how the events are set up. They may buy/rent fewer things at these regionals as other regionals have done recently.

IE: smaller practice field, no practice field, no sponsor banners, less extra lighting/A/V equipment?

I guess my thoughts are if the savings are not passd onto teams, then why make the cahnges and who is reaping the benifits?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Zflash

I guess my thoughts are if the savings are not passd onto teams, then why make the cahnges and who is reaping the benifits?

FIRST isn't having to float the regionals that can't come up with enough cash on their own. Which is why it's highly unlikely anyone going to those events would be paying less than normal.

[Karthik]

Does anyone know if teams attending the "compressed competition format" events (Pittsburgh and Sacramento) will be given "out of bag" time prior to the event, similar to what MI teams received last year? We were seriously considering attending Pittsburgh, but the thought of not having a practice day prior to our first event of the season makes me a bit trepidatious. Not knowing these important details with registration less than 48 hours away is problematic.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Fe_Will

I'd really like to see the plan for Crate Regional -> Bag & Tag Regional -> Championship

Seconded.

Originally Posted by Karthik

Not knowing these important details with registration less than 48 hours away is problematic.

Agreed.

"Practice matches will be run during load-in at Sacramento and Pittsburgh (probably on the practice field) and qualifying matches will begin sometime Friday morning."

Pittsburgh does not have a practice field (and I don't know where they'd put one - loading dock?). They have typically provided a very small practice area.

[Jared Russell]

Traditional FRC Regional Events may only have a half-day of practice rounds on Thursday before qualification rounds begin.

Qualifying rounds on Thursday afternoon at Week 1 events will be very interesting, to say the least.

[Bob Steele]

When many speak of the 10 rounds of qualifiers being the solution to our problems of getting the best teams on the field for the finals... we need to ponder this...

How many regionals have you been to that have all of the rookie and younger teams ready to start playing at 12:00 on Thursday?
I have NEVER been to a regional where that was the case...

So you go into your qualifier on Thursday and your partners have not been inspected... or can't pass inspection.... many teams need all of Thursday to get ready....it is a god send to many of them....

It also gives those of us that are ready plenty of time to help them get ready.
Now we are all playing.... noon....

If the game is anything like last year.. you will see even more qualification situations.... last year if one team did not make it on the field.... it was a free for all on that empty trailer....

If that happens again Thursday will NOT represent BETTER qualifications...
It will be much worse...

I would rather have 7 good qualifying rounds than 10 with 3 on Thursday...with only half of the robots showing up...

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

So you go into your qualifier on Thursday and your partners have not been inspected... or can't pass inspection.... many teams need all of Thursday to get ready....it is a god send to many of them....

It also gives those of us that are ready plenty of time to help them get ready.
Now we are all playing.... noon....

If the game is anything like last year.. you will see even more qualification situations.... last year if one team did not make it on the field.... it was a free for all on that empty trailer....

If that happens again Thursday will NOT represent BETTER qualifications...
It will be much worse...

I would rather have 7 good qualifying rounds than 10 with 3 on Thursday...with only half of the robots showing up...

I disagree. Thursday matches will lead to a more representative top 8. Not because they are on Thursday but in simply increases the sample size.

In addition to the increased sample size, the good team are more likely to pass inspection and won't be as effected by the lack of practice time (due to practice robots). The 'bad' teams are the ones more likely to miss matches or have mechanical/electrical issues.

It is true that more robots missing will lead to more variability. But a missing robot will effect the good and bad teams equally (assuming the match schedule is random). I think three more matches clearly outweighs this potential variability.

I'm all for more matches!