Extra C Rio?

[falconmaster]

We are planning on trying to build twin robots and need to buy an extra C Rio! Does anyone know how we go about getting one? We know that we will not be getting one because of the discount for the regional you were previously at.

[Vikesrock]

I believe the phone number on the right hand side of this page is what you're looking for.

1-866-511-6285

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

I believe the phone number on the right hand side of this page is what you're looking for.

1-866-511-6285

Thanks!

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by falconmaster

We are planning on trying to build twin robots and need to buy an extra C Rio! Does anyone know how we go about getting one? We know that we will not be getting one because of the discount for the regional you were previously at.

Fred -

Before spending a substantial sum on those components, are you sure it is going to be legal to build a second robot? Are you comfortable making this investment now, if you were to find out at kick-off that you could not use those parts? I only mention this as a caution, given the warning that we all read in the first paragraph of this entry in Bill's Blog. As always, we have to remember that the rules from prior years DO NOT apply to this year's competition.

-dave


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[EricH]

Dave, I have never known it to be illegal to get spare parts. Should FIRST outlaw buying spare parts, I for one will most likely quit.

Should a second robot for practice indeed become illegal (which, may I point out, is a virtually unenforceable rule, other than by the honor code), then many a team could be doubly handicapped-- short Thursdays for practice, no practice at the build site, and it'll be hard to plan needed adjustments. Admittedly, should the bagging system go to all events, then the above paragraph is a moot point, as teams have 8 hours to practice/repair/adjust with their robot there.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Before spending a substantial sum on those components, are you sure it is going to be legal to build a second robot?

How could it not be legal?

What a team builds in addition to its competition robot has never been restricted by the rules. Even if all fabrication not intended for competition *were* to be outlawed, there's an obvious loophole: teams will just do it anyway.

[Robert Cawthon]

Although my team is not in a financial position to do it, would it be possible for a veteran team to request a rookie team KOP and pay the extra $?

[Chris is me]

I'm in favor of not assuming anything as much as the next guy, but I'm trying to wrap my head around how FIRST could say and enforce that a team does not get to build something independent of their FRC build that happens to look, act, and drive like a robot they're building for the actual competition...

Either way a second cRIO lets you keep around last year's robot.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Robert Cawthon

Although my team is not in a financial position to do it, would it be possible for a veteran team to request a rookie team KOP and pay the extra $?

God that would be great.

[barkersocal]

We just purchased a spare cRIO.

This will help in allowing the software team to run in parallel to the other teams.

If (god forbid) our existing cRIO is blown out in a competition we can switch.

We get a discount on purchasing this spare for NI as well.

Use the number previously posted. The folks at NI are very good and will get you set up.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

How could it not be legal?

What a team builds in addition to its competition robot has never been restricted by the rules. Even if all fabrication not intended for competition *were* to be outlawed, there's an obvious loophole: teams will just do it anyway.

If you are only reading the words in what I said, then you are missing the message.

There are any number of reasons that building a second robot could be a bad / prohibited / expensive / unnecessary / duplicative / silly / wasteful (pick your preferred adjective) idea. Regardless of the specific cause, any team thinking of making this type of purchase/financial commitment needs to be asking certain fundamental questions: Do we really need to make this purchase right now, before we know the rules, conditions, restrictions, and opportunities that will be associated with the 2010 season? If we do need to make the purchase/commitment right now, are we prepared to absorb that cost as a loss if it turns out that you can't, or don't want to, use the items when the season is unveiled in January?

-dave



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[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by dlavery

If you are only reading the words in what I said, then you are missing the message.

There are any number of reasons that building a second robot could be a bad / prohibited / expensive / unnecessary / duplicative / silly / wasteful (pick your preferred adjective) idea. Regardless of the specific cause, any team thinking of making this type of purchase/financial commitment needs to be asking certain fundamental questions: Do we really need to make this purchase right now, before we know the rules, conditions, restrictions, and opportunities that will be associated with the 2010 season? If we do need to make the purchase/commitment right now, are we prepared to absorb that cost as a loss if it turns out that you can't, or don't want to, use the items when the season is unveiled in January?

-dave



.

I agree with your overall message, but just curious, what are your reasons for thinking a second robot is a bad idea?

[rsisk]

You could apply dlaverly's logic to any aspect of the FIRST competition (and life for that matter). We constantly make decisions based on imperfect knowledge of the future, we do the best with what we have.

I know we bought a second cRIO for basically the same reason barkersocal did. And assuming that it would have legit uses in the future.

dlaverly's posts does add some FUD to choice of making the purchase, mostly due to the "why is he saying this now" aspect, but I'm still comfortable with the decision made several months ago, and would still make the same decision (to buy a second complete control system) at this time.

When I first saw dlaverly's post yesterday, my first thought was "this is going to make for some interesting discussion and head scratching"

[EricVanWyk]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I agree with your overall message, but just curious, what are your reasons for thinking a second robot is a bad idea?

I'm thinking its on the order of "What if 2010's XYZ is sufficiently different from the 2009 version that it would be unusable" or "What if aspect ABC of the 2010 game is sufficiently unusual that attempting to build now would be inappropriate (regolith)".

I think it is a part of a larger theme of "Even if we all loved 200X's game/rules/etc, recreating 200X over and over again isn't optimal or what we are about". Some people prefer Formula 1 racing, some people Rallies. Formula 1 is all about optimization and perfection, Rally Racing is about adaptability and agility. I believe FRC is more like Rally Racing.

Additionally, I hope that it is part of a "Think outside the KoP" theme. I'd love to see what teams came up with.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by EricVanWyk

I'm thinking its on the order of "What if 2010's XYZ is sufficiently different from the 2009 version that it would be unusable" or "What if aspect ABC of the 2010 game is sufficiently unusual that attempting to build now would be inappropriate (regolith)".

I think it is a part of a larger theme of "Even if we all loved 200X's game/rules/etc, recreating 200X over and over again isn't optimal or what we are about". Some people prefer Formula 1 racing, some people Rallies. Formula 1 is all about optimization and perfection, Rally Racing is about adaptability and agility. I believe FRC is more like Rally Racing.

Additionally, I hope that it is part of a "Think outside the KoP" theme. I'd love to see what teams came up with.

I was referring to building a second (aka practice) robot during the 2010 competition season.