A Request for transparency from FIRST

[,4lex S.]

Thank you for putting your time into this guys. I think this pretty much sums up most of my concerns with FIRST today, and I am glad such an experienced group came together to point this out to the directorship.

The magic curtain they hide the game behind every year should not extend to the overall goals of the organization. It seems almost like blindfolding everyone and then trying to get them to solve the problems we are trying to solve. This never seemed very efficient.

[kamocat]

I wanted to pull this back into visibility, as the season is nearing its end.
I'm not asking for new posts, but I'd like the greater FIRST community to be aware of this, and to foster clear and respectful communication to ensure everyone's needs are met.

[Chris is me]

They've been doing great with some things! Less than great with others. I'm sure the Dean's List was not an impulse decision...

[RMiller]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

They've been doing great with some things! Less than great with others. I'm sure the Dean's List was not an impulse decision...

For what it is worth, Dean mentioned this at the Midwest regional. Boiling it down (others can correct any misstatements), he didn't want to add lots of pressure during the build season. In addition, he really only wanted to see the best of the best in this initial year. The time crunch on teams allowed for the judges to not be overworked with up to 130 essays. I know not all teams submitted two names (or even one in some cases). From the sound of it, it was a post kick-off decision.
That said, I seem to recall there being hints at things to come in the kick-off. I don't know if Dean's List was what was intended.

[Rich Kressly]

Originally Posted by RMiller

For what it is worth, Dean mentioned this at the Midwest regional. Boiling it down (others can correct any misstatements), he didn't want to add lots of pressure during the build season. In addition, he really only wanted to see the best of the best in this initial year. The time crunch on teams allowed for the judges to not be overworked with up to 130 essays. I know not all teams submitted two names (or even one in some cases). From the sound of it, it was a post kick-off decision.
That said, I seem to recall there being hints at things to come in the kick-off. I don't know if Dean's List was what was intended.

Well, if you're looking for the best of the best, waiting till the last minute will NOT get you all of the best. Sorry, but this was a crappy, misguided decision if that really was the thinking.

Many teams I'm sure are like mine and don't have a ton of mentors or students sitting around waiting for something to do. I, personally, had to make a decision to ignore the robot withholding work for 2-3 full days because we made the decision to write the nominations. Thus, our robot was not as competitive on the field as it might have been in our initial event. It's not a decision that I regret, but I'm surely not pleased I was forced to make it. Other teams - some of the best with really awesome kids - decided the opposite, and I fully understand and support their choices as well.

Dean's list is a long overdue honor and I'm thrilled it exists. However, to quote a far more astute person than I on these boards, this was an "abortive process" at best this year.

[JaneYoung]

When something is handled poorly, it is handled poorly.
There are no excuses that are good enough and the results are not an accurate assessment because of the mishandled process.

I'm delighted that teams carved out the time to write and submit essays acknowledging the strength of character, commitment, integrity, and true grit of the students that were selected on their team and, in a way, are representatives of their team's character. I'm thrilled that the Finalists will compete at the Championship level and will have created another beautiful page in the history of FRC. It is wonderful and FRC, as a community, is celebrating this long overdue honor, the Dean's List Award.

But, when something is handled poorly, it is handled poorly and creates unbelievable and unnecessary stress on those who must weigh the consequences of the decision whether to participate or to ignore this wonderful and prestigious moment in the history of FRC.

Next year, we will be able to savor the true depth of the meaning of this award when it is announced in a timely fashion.

Jane

[HashemReza]

Now, I'm a fairly involved person on my team. I've spent up to 35 hours at my school in one sitting this past build season, working with my teammates non-stop. I also wrote our Woodie Flowers submissions this year, both the local regional level and the national refresher. You might say I'm fairly checked in. I frequent CD, possibly a few times a day on average.

I had no idea what they were talking about when they mentioned the "Dean's Finalist Award" in San Diego. Literally, I looked around confused because I had not an inkling that this award existed.

Now, I'm sure that there was more notification that I was unaware of...but it just seems to have been somewhat mis-handled.

The worst part? I missed an opportunity. This is my senior year, and I would have loved to nominate one of my fellow seniors for the award. It's saddening that those students around me, who inspire me just as much as our mentors and teachers, have also missed out on the opportunity to be recognized for their overwhelming dedication and intelligence. Oh well, I suppose just telling them in person will have to do for now

The award is obviously well-meaning, and frankly a very necessary one. It has just tripped slightly in it's first year.

[ICntIHaveRbtics]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

They've been doing great with some things! Less than great with others. I'm sure the Dean's List was not an impulse decision...

If the Dean's List award was honestly thought out and defined at the beginning of the season, I would think that FIRST would have put it out at the very beginning to give people as much time as possible to submit nominations for it.

But following the "never enough time" mantra, alas I believe it was something they wanted to try and squeeze in and give some people the opportunity to receive the honor this year as opposed to waiting until last year. Surely students that deserved the honor are students from teams that make it work regardless of having a short amount of time.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by ICntIHaveRbtics

If the Dean's List award was honestly thought out and defined at the beginning of the season, I would think that FIRST would have put it out at the very beginning to give people as much time as possible to submit nominations for it.

Yeah, I would too. Which makes me wonder why FIRST would make such an important award an impulse decision

But following the "never enough time" mantra, alas I believe it was something they wanted to try and squeeze in and give some people the opportunity to receive the honor this year as opposed to waiting until last year. Surely students that deserved the honor are students from teams that make it work regardless of having a short amount of time.

I'll go tell the students from 980, 1323, and countless others that had TIMS problems that their team just didn't make it work.

Teams like mine had to have their students play a significant role in their own essays in order to get them done. We did not have time to discuss candidates, whether or not to submit for the award, etc. in two school days. It was stupid to rush this award and the right people did not get recognized, I guarantee it.

[jonny2112]

I really don't think Deans List was impulse decision on FIRST part, that said I don't think they had everything ready at the time of kickoff. If you look at everything the winners of Deans list get you can see just how complicated everything was.

A written recommendation from FIRST leadership to the college or employer of each student’s choice.
A credit towards the winning student’s team following year registration fee
An invitation to attend an expenses paid Leadership in Engineering Workshop in Manchester, NH.
The opportunity to work with all members of the FIRST Dean's List and network with FIRST leaders to
advance FIRST.

Even if they had the award set up, maybe it took them a little longer than expected to make sure they would be able to pay that all expense trip, or maybe there were some other issues that came up last minute.

While I am a little upset that they could not have released the award earlier, I am happy that they brought together so many awesome incentives that really make this award one of the most meaningful in FIRST.

[efoote868]

I hope they respond to this in writing... I'd be more interested in reading it in my own time rather than listening to Dean about it during a kickoff event (when I have other things to be anxious about).

Well said, well crafted.

[ICntIHaveRbtics]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Teams like mine had to have their students play a significant role in their own essays in order to get them done. We did not have time to discuss candidates, whether or not to submit for the award, etc. in two school days. It was stupid to rush this award and the right people did not get recognized, I guarantee it.

So are you saying that the people that did get recognized for the award don't deserve it? There are always going to be people that missed out on getting a chance to receive the award and might have deserved it "more" because of the crunch, I admit that, and I realized I didn't say anything along those lines in my initial post. But in the same breath we should be happy for the people who did get recognized because they did deserve it -- more, less, or the same as the people who didn't get a chance to submit, at least we know that those people did things for our FIRST community that must be substantial in order to receive the award. Not crush the credibility of the award because of the rushed process. Hypothetically if I received the honor, I wouldn't want to hear someone else saying that "the right people did not get recognized"...

[EricH]

He's not saying that the recipients didn't deserve it.

He's saying that there are a number of deserving students that, due to problems with TIMS, didn't even get to submit for the award, through no fault of their own.

Some teams with students that could have been nominated did not submit, due to the time crunch. Other teams wanted to leave the students out of the loop (due to the same reasons that students do the same thing with the WFFA), but could not due to the process. Teams that had to involve the students could only involve the students who had time to write the essays.

Saying that the right people did not get recognized may be stretching the truth, but it's a natural outgrowth of the above.

[Jack Jones]

It appears that some have misunderstood my previous post.
You may take exception to a snippet here and snippet there, but if you consider it in total, I believe you will grasp my meaning – which was:

Transparency isn’t always necessary.
Transparency isn’t always possible.
The issues raised are best resolved between the ones who raised them and the management and board of directors.
It serves no purpose to debate those issues here, where rumor will abound and there’s sure to be false assumptions as to how and why decisions have been made.

OAO

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

It appears that some have misunderstood my previous post.
You may take exception to a snippet here and snippet there, but if you consider it in total, I believe you will grasp my meaning – which was:

Transparency isn’t always necessary.
Transparency isn’t always possible.
The issues raised are best resolved between the ones who raised them and the management and board of directors.
It serves no purpose to debate those issues here, where rumor will abound and there’s sure to be false assumptions as to how and why decisions have been made.

OAO

The issues are debated here because often our only chance of "understanding" what FIRST is doing is to debate for a while, then assume. In this case, Transparency would be pretty darn nice. People running teams can more effectively line their team up with the plan of FIRST, saving money and preventing potential embarrassment over things like the FTC switch.