Extra C Rio?

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by dlavery

If you are only reading the words in what I said, then you are missing the message.

Your words are all I can read, because words are all you wrote.

The message came through just fine in the rest of your post: it's best to wait until you know the requirements before committing to a major purchase that might not be useful. But the specific question of whether a prototype/testbed/practice robot might end up being against the rules seems very strange to bring up. It would be an attempt to extend control by FIRST into activities they shouldn't care about, and it would be impossible to enforce.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by EricVanWyk

I'm thinking its on the order of "What if 2010's XYZ is sufficiently different from the 2009 version that it would be unusable"

That situation had better not apply to the cRIO. Veteran teams have been told they're supposed to use the 2009 version they already have, and they have been told how to buy another one like it. If buying a spare cRIO turns out to be a waste of money, Bill's going to have an awful lot of explaining to do.

[EricVanWyk]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

That situation had better not apply to the cRIO. Veteran teams have been told they're supposed to use the 2009 version they already have, and they have been told how to buy another one like it. If buying a spare cRIO turns out to be a waste of money, Bill's going to have an awful lot of explaining to do.

Disclaimer: I really am only guessing here (Honest).

The most specific reason I could fathom would be CAN connectivity. The 2009 cRIO kit did not come with a CAN module. Will the 2010 kit have one? If so, I'd imagine that the specific module would be part of the Veteran KoP and the 2010 cRIO kit, so a team that bought a spare right now would have to buy a second CAN adaptor in January.

[Travis Hoffman]

Here's a related question - does the $750 cRIO + modules discount - if used now - apply to the 2009 or 2010 season, since you can only get one discount per year? What is NI's definition of a "new" season? Kickoff?

[Dale]

I just had a detailed conversation with NI about what their policy is going to be about the timing of ordering cRIOs at the $750 price.

The $750 price is based on a calendar year. The year starts Jan 1st. Late 2008 was an exception. Many of us ordered a second cRIO in late 2008 for the 2009 season. All those early orders are rolled together and considered part of your 2009 orders.

For example, we ordered a second cRIO in December 2008. I am precluded from ordering another at the $750 price until Jan 1st, 2010. You can order all you want at the $1,400 price.

I tried to convince them that FRC teams really run on a school calendar year (or at least from the date of a team's registration for a FRC event) but they wouldn't budge. If we want to change this it would have to be an agreement between FIRST and NI.

I don't know what this means for the Rookie team who wants to order a second cRIO in the Fall. I forgot to ask about that.

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by Dale

I am precluded from ordering another at the $750 price until Jan 1st, 2010. You can order all you want at the $1,400 price.

If we pay $1,400 do we get the FRC version or the off the shelf version?

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

If we pay $1,400 do we get the FRC version or the off the shelf version?

When we ordered last year, we got the exact version as the KOP with all 5 modules. I imagine regardless of whether or not you get the discount, you get this version.

[Dale]

Yes, that is true. Teams will always get the special FRC version.

The website shows a $750 version of the cRIO you can order right away and not wait for the annual special deal. This is just the carrier with no plug in modules.

[Clinton Bolinger]

Refer to this thread for more information about buying an additional cRIO for $750:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=70630

-Oris-

[Bob Steele]

I am not sure what Dave is speaking of but many teams would like to have the "advantage" of having a new cRio to work with for the 2010 Competition robot. We KNOW that we are getting it in the kit...

Veterans are not getting the CRio for competition like the rookie teams are so it would be really nice to be able to order one so that it gets to us sometime in early January...

We continue to need our 2009 robot for demos to help new teams in a variety of ways and really don't want to tear it down.... having that robot around is necessary to both our fund-raising AND in helping other teams to fund-raise.

It seems reasonable for teams to be able to order one before the end of the calendar year so that this can happen.

We purchased an extra cRio last year to use for bench tests and other testing including testing an extra drive base...we use it now for bench testing prototypes. We can tear that whole system down if we have to but I am not sure what the reasoning is for teams that want to order a 2nd cRio at the $750 price.... to use on their 2010 robot should not be able to order it so that they can get this equipment on or about Kickoff.

Teams were allowed to purchase a 2nd cRio last year for $750 but I am not sure what that means this year... since we don't get the first one... do we have the opportunity to purchase 2 more at that price? I would presume not.

The full cRio for FIRST teams listed on the NI site costs $1491...nearly twice the cost of the $750 offer.

780405-01 For FIRST Only - FIRST FRC Controller and I/O Kit, 2009 12 - 20 $ 1,491.00

This is from the NI site http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/206678

I only hope that NI allows teams to take advantage of the $750 pricing before the beginning of 2010... by perhaps letting us order in the fall for delivery in January...

thank you all and Good luck!!

[Tom Line]

I hate to pull information from another post into this one, but I think this is a perfect time to point out exactly why we want more transparency from FIRST.

This is a huge chunk of money, and I personally believe it's absolutely silly to be in the position of worrying that you might not be able to build a second robot.

It would NOT be that hard for FIRST to put out this rule far in advance of the new season, or to at least specifically warn the teams not to purchase a second C-Rio (for whatever reason).

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Fred -

Before spending a substantial sum on those components, are you sure it is going to be legal to build a second robot? Are you comfortable making this investment now, if you were to find out at kick-off that you could not use those parts? I only mention this as a caution, given the warning that we all read in the first paragraph of this entry in Bill's Blog. As always, we have to remember that the rules from prior years DO NOT apply to this year's competition.

-dave


.

I did not mean to stir up a hornets nest here. Thanks for the advice Dave. I posted this on CD and did not check back in for a while, imagine my surprise to find all this discussion!