FIRST vs. BB

[E. The Kidd]

Just to prove I have too much free time I had a thought:

"What if FIRST took on Battlebots on Junkyard wars?"

So I have a two questions for the CD members to think about:

1. If FIRST was to send a team of 4 people to the show who would it be?

2. What do you think they should play? (a FIRST game, Battle Bots match, etc.)

Just keep in mind both teams:
1. have to build a robot
2. both teams will be presented with a kit of parts
3. there is a weight limit of 300 lbs
4. teams may use anything they find in the yard (no limit on types of parts)

p.s. if anything is unclear just let me know and I'll update this post

[Ian W.]

well, it would have to wind uo being more of a BB type match, because you can take a motor and a lead pipe and make a basher, but you can't take those same two pieces and make a goal grabber. so, to keep things relatively simple, it would have to be like that.

inthe kit of parts, what kind of parts would they get? i assume they'd get controls, batteries, electrical wires, etc, but what else? would they have to rip motors out of cars and other things in the 'junkyard'?

all in all, if there ever was a thing like this, it would be very cool, and i would jump at the chance to do it

[E. The Kidd]

the type of kit would be the same as we get here in FIRST motors and all

[Hubicki]

I think one might be surprised how well a FIRST bot would do against a battle bot. Our team went to a robotics fair in our area where a battlebot team was present. They're robot was quite weak and flimsy and they admitted that our robot could beat theirs. We would just have to replace our T-bar with a spike or weapon of some sort. I think it would be most interesting if a team entered their FIRST bot and modify it to a be a battle-bot. If they did well, which they very well may, it would really show up the battle-bots community.
~Hubicki~

[rbayer]

Originally posted by Hubicki
I think one might be surprised how well a FIRST bot would do against a battle bot. Our team went to a robotics fair in our area where a battlebot team was present. They're robot was quite weak and flimsy and they admitted that our robot could beat theirs. We would just have to replace our T-bar with a spike or weapon of some sort. I think it would be most interesting if a team entered their FIRST bot and modify it to a be a battle-bot. If they did well, which they very well may, it would really show up the battle-bots community.
~Hubicki~

I agree. What most people don't know is that the vast majority of battle bots never appear on TV; only the best of the best make it. Even without modification, I would bet many FIRST robots could do well in battle bots simply by pushing the opponent into the arena hazards. Wheels might need new treads for gripping metal instead of carpet, but overall I think it could do very well.

[Ian W.]

but you forget one small, slightly important detail...

battle bots (or at least the good ones) have defenses against the arena hazards. be it an inch thick metal plate on the bottom to protect from killsaws, or something to absorb the shock of the giant hammer, they are designed to take that force. a FIRST bot is not.

take my team's robot for example. everyone's probably seen it. two treads for slow power, and four wheels for fast with slightly less power. i'm sure if we went up against a battle bot, we'd be able to push them around with no problem. but, if we were to get pushed into say a killsaw, it's all over. treads, gone. wheels, pretty much gone. frame, nice big chunks taken out, a real pain to repair. so, despite the raw power, 810's robot is not, will not be, and never was, a battle bot. sure, with way too much time and effort we could convert it, but there's no point. it's easier to build one from scratch. it's not that a battle bot is hard to build, it's just a completely different thing from a FIRST bot.

[ChrisA]

is it just me or does my teams 2001 robot look like a good battlebot... get em on the ramp and flip em.... maybe not...

our 2002 robot could probably be pretty vicious... put some spikes on our accumulator and were looking at a good garbage compactor.

all in all i think the quality of the first bots are much better than battle bots... of course we have how many actual engineers and big corporations backing us... imagine if some big corporation had a robot built and entered it into battle bots... because of funding it would probably be quite good.

from what ive heard it sounds as though team 112 will be moving to battle bots but this is only rumor

[Andrew Rudolph]

yeah if a big corperation sponsored a battle but but they probably wont because battlebots isnt nearly as good as FIRST. But when machine shops with big money make robots you get robots like son of waichi which just dominated and walked too.


i think that if they were to do the whol junkyardwars deal with first/BB then they should have 2 tournaments just like junkyard wars within each community and the winners face off in a battle much like they do with the british vr. Americans on the actual show.

[Ian W.]

chris-

yes, FIRST robots tend to be more sophisticated in some ways, but battle bots always seem to look nicer (like cleaner and slightly more proffesional). now, we all have to remember, each robot is designed for a different purpose, so each will do one thing great, and pretty much suck at others. for instance, i've never seen a battle bot that could pick up soccer balls as well as RAGE, but i've never seen a FIRST bot that could tear a battle bot apart as well as some battle bots (i forget all their names). so, even if a FIRST bot has 1,000 engineers behind it, a battle bot with a crazy guy behind it still has a much better chance at winning. it's just the way they're designed.

[Bryan Mancuso]

I like the concept of having a Junkyard Wars style Competition between the two robotics groups, but with junkyard resources it is difficult to work with a weight restriction. We FIRSTers have an advantage with working with serious time constraints, and the Battlebots people have an advantage with seeing something and turning it into a weapon or other strategic device. But to work with junkyard resources it is near impossible to find enough aluminum to keep your frame under 300lbs...Plus all the extras made out of steel and what have you. All the Battlebots are all made out of stock like first robots and they are pushing 300lbs alone.

Pardon the cliche but that is my two cents.

-Mancuso

[E. The Kidd]

Originally posted by Bryan Mancuso
I like the concept of having a Junkyard Wars style Competition between the two robotics groups, but with junkyard resources it is difficult to work with a weight restriction. We FIRSTers have an advantage with working with serious time constraints, and the Battlebots people have an advantage with seeing something and turning it into a weapon or other strategic device. But to work with junkyard resources it is near impossible to find enough aluminum to keep your frame under 300lbs...Plus all the extras made out of steel and what have you. All the Battlebots are all made out of stock like first robots and they are pushing 300lbs alone.

Pardon the cliche but that is my two cents.

-Mancuso

the only reason why i said 300 lbs is because most super heavyweights in BB aren't much more than 300 lbs

[BSMFIRST]

A pilot for a robotics show similar to this is being filmed next week. It's kind of like a high tech junkyard wars with robots but (AFAIK) more task-oriented FIRST-like competitions though on a smaller scale. It sounded like it would be more technical and in-depth than any show on currently although a lot may change if/when it makes it to TV.

I also heard someone at KSC was in charge of choosing the hosts (perhaps just for the pilot) and the finalists were all engineers, 4 who did FIRST and 2 who did BattleBots. They chose the BattleBots guys for whatever reason.

[Ian W.]

do you know when this show is going to be aired, because it's something that i would like to see.

[BSMFIRST]

They are just filming the pilot now, so it may not make it to TV at all. If it does, it will appear on a new cable channel (forgot the name.)

Dan

[jon]

Have a look at this recent discussion. See what geeks think about BB and FIRST.