[BB] Robot Inspections

[Team1710]

Good Afternoon Teams,

We’ve been reviewing the robot inspection process as we prepare for 2010 and there are a few things I want you to know. First, there should be no surprises for a well prepared team at the robot inspection station. The robot inspection details are provided to teams on our website in the game manual and any updates or changes to the game manual are first discussed by the GDC on the Q and A section of our forums and then published in the team updates which are posted on our website.

Second, if you have come to the robot inspection booth well prepared and are asked to make an alteration to your robot that you feel is counter to the information provided in the game manual and updates, you may ask (nicely) for the Lead Robot Inspector to make a ruling. The volunteer Robot Inspectors at each event are doing the best they can, with the training they have received. If you disagree with their interpretation, and can back up your opinion with documentation from the forums & updates, then you should ask to speak with the Lead Robot Inspector. This is the person who trained the Robot Inspectors for the event and who should not only have the latest rulings from the GDC, but who will also want to know if their Robot Inspectors are misinterpreting something from those rulings.

Third: If you do ask (nicely) for a ruling by the Lead Robot Inspector, his or her ruling is final.

80 days until the 2010 Kickoff
See you there!



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[Francis-134]

Hopefully this means they are codifying a process to appeal inspection troubles to the head inspector. This is certainly a step in the right direction.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Francis,
This is just stating in another forum what you should have known all along. LRI and inspectors are there to help you compete. Sometimes there are mistakes in interpretation or explanation during an inspection. As Bill has stated, the LRI has the tools to make a decision and should be part of the loop should a questionable call during inspections arise.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

As Bill has stated, the LRI has the tools to make a decision and should be part of the loop should a questionable call during inspections arise.

What happens when the LRI makes up a rule, or makes a call which is counter to the written rules? Their rulings are final.

There will be 40+ LRIs this year.
Al Skierkiewicz won't be at every regional, and he won't be at either of mine.

-John

[Conor Ryan]

Will rulings carry over between competitions?

[Russ Beavis]

John,
The LRIs shouldn't make up rules but they can make mistakes. Bill's blog did mention that teams should be prepared to make their case using rules, Q&A responses and Team Updates. The LRIs will listen.

We have weekly conference calls during the season to discuss the hot topics. We work hard to ensure consistency between regionals.

Russ

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by JVN

What happens when the LRI makes up a rule, or makes a call which is counter to the written rules? Their rulings are final.

There will be 40+ LRIs this year.
Al Skierkiewicz won't be at every regional, and he won't be at either of mine.

-John

Get the FTA (FIRST Technical Advisor) involved. Most of them have been inspectors and know the rules and the proper attitude. He will also generally have complete, up-to-date, copies of the rules and Q&A.

The FTA is an ADVISOR, he can not over-rule the LRI. But he can offer an alternative perspective and serve as a neutral 3rd party if things get heated. He might be able to pursuade an official he is in error and generally get things straightened out. BTW this applies to the Refs making up rules too.

If the field crew is good, and most of them are, the FTA should have the knowledge and time to get to the bottom of the problem and suggest the correct course for resolution.

Please remember that the FTA's primary responsibility is to keep the "show" going. If you come with your problem when half the field just stopped talking to robots, you will probably have to wait a bit until the crisis is over. But once things are running again he will be glad to work with you.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by JVN

What happens when the LRI makes up a rule, or makes a call which is counter to the written rules? Their rulings are final.

There will be 40+ LRIs this year.
Al Skierkiewicz won't be at every regional, and he won't be at either of mine.

-John

I would suggest that you 'find out' what the ruling would be before you ask the LRI to make a ruling. Never ask anyone to make a "final" decision if you don't know what the decision will be.

In the end, the LRI is there to keep the playing field level, and to ensure that teams play by the rules. As such, they need to be given the 'umpires authority' ... for better or worse, lest every decision be challanged.

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan

Will rulings carry over between competitions?

Probably not, but since the rulings are based on a single core set of rules the interpretations "should" be consistant.

[Russ Beavis]

Conor,
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "rulings carrying over". If a robot passes inspection at one event, a new inspection (which can result in a failed first attempt) will be required at every subsequent event. There have been instances where something is missed during event 1 but is then caught by a more experienced inspector at event 2. Sorry... it happens.

"Big" rulings (for example, techniques and interpretations for bumper or perimeter rulings in recent years) sometimes result in mid-season changes via Team Updates, Q&A responses and inspection checklist/docs modifications. The LRIs discuss these issues during weekly conference calls in an attempt to ensure consistency and predict future difficulties. Of course, we try to minimize such mid-season changes since the robots have already been built according to previous rules and such.

Russ

[johnr]

I know some people blog just to blog, but Bill usually has something new and important. I'm wondering what brought this topic up.Where there some problems last year or was it the discussion on cd about shortening inspection time?

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by johnr

I know some people blog just to blog, but Bill usually has something new and important. I'm wondering what brought this topic up.Where there some problems last year or was it the discussion on cd about shortening inspection time?

A lot of this is from BB talking about ensuring 10 matches per team per regional. The discussion went on further about starting up matches on Thursday which led to the discussion of shortened inspection.

[dtengineering]

In ten FRC events I have only once ever had an issue with a robot inspector "making up a rule". Unfortunately it was a "rule" that would have required us to partially disassmble and completely re-wire our robot. Fortunately, he was willing to listen to my arguments, contact the tournament director, and seek advice from FRC HQ before making his "final ruling" on Friday morning.

With the compressed inspection schedule this year, I hope there will be room for lead inspectors to allow a "conditional pass" for Thursday afternoon in the event they wish to seek advice prior to ruling.

Of course, the standard of inspection does vary from event to event... but fortunately this appears mainly to be by having non-compliant robots passed, rather than compliant robots not passed.

Jason

P.S. Why not include a 150lb spring scale in every rookie team kit? The number one excuse for being overweight is "we didn't know", followed shortly by "we didn't have a way to weigh it easily".

[Pjohn1959]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

P.S. Why not include a 150lb spring scale in every rookie team kit? The number one excuse for being overweight is "we didn't know", followed shortly by "we didn't have a way to weigh it easily".

Thanks Jason,

That would be an excellent idea. That and sizing are the #1 issues for inspection. And it includes ALL teams, not just rookies.

Each of the LRIs has Russ's number, so if there are any questions, they can get a final final from him.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by JVN

What happens when the LRI makes up a rule, or makes a call which is counter to the written rules? Their rulings are final.

There will be 40+ LRIs this year.
Al Skierkiewicz won't be at every regional, and he won't be at either of mine.

-John

John,
All LRIs are instructed to use all resources available to them. This includes regular contact with the FTA, Head Ref, and any First staff present. All LRIs also have phone contacts for Russ and for many of the other LRIs. I know that many have mine and my email. I will continue to try and have all LRIs be as consistent as possible.

Inspection should not be a major cause for concern. We are there to help you compete, not to prevent you from competing.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

John,
All LRIs are instructed to use all resources available to them. This includes regular contact with the FTA, Head Ref, and any First staff present. All LRIs also have phone contacts for Russ and for many of the other LRIs. I know that many have mine and my email. I will continue to try and have all LRIs be as consistent as possible.

Inspection should not be a major cause for concern. We are there to help you compete, not to prevent you from competing.

You guys are so optimistic, you're making me feel the love. I hope you're right!

But... I've heard this story before, and I take the good experiences with the bad ones (most of them are great).

Trust me, inspection woes aren't "major causes for concern" on our team, just sometimes they result in "minor instances of frustration" which we'd love to avoid.

I know you guys have heard the horror stories. You know some regionals are better than others.

I know you're working to keep those horror stories from happening, and make sure every regional is consistently a positive experience...

So... come see me in Atlanta and I'll be sure to buy you a coke and give you a pat on the back.

-John