[FTC]: Robot Capabilities

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by FTC G-FORCE

Ok if you go for the spin bar, then by the time you get there the other robot has the 40 points. IF they can get in range and gets them in right away. THEN its like they have 80 points (I don't think its the best way to win) + they only get 40 points if they get all 8 balls in with alto mode UNLESS they get the YELLOW ball in at the end.

The strategy would be tuned to the opponent; if the opponent can shoot all 10 of their balls accurately into the goal within the 5 seconds or so it takes to drive forward over the bump and push the spin bar with a spear or whatever accessory of choice is in use (assuming the robot would hit the goal), then the robot could run a "normal" outside goal grabbing auto.

Remember if a robot makes just as many balls in the 10 point goal as the opponent makes in auto, they've canceled out their advantage. So then if the 10 point shooter ends up grabbing a goal worth of balls and scoring them in the end, they could get as many / more points than a team scoring in the 5 point during auto and the rest in the 10 point goal, assuming same number of obtained balls. Add in doublers and the ten point goal basically has the most potential of all of them. granted, this requires a massive hopper and a very fast shooter, so this strategy only works if you had that...

It's an interesting tradeoff to figure out which goal to aim for (or both, then decide at the event), but I think a properly designed 10 point only robot wouldn't NEED to win auto to do super well. However, the event winners will probably be 5 point auto scorers, 10 point teleop scorers...

[JesseK]

Chris, are you thinking that you're able to score into the outer goals during auto? It's my understanding that no one is allowed to score into the outer goals until the last 30 seconds of teleop.

[Chris is me]

I'm thinking ball for ball, a ball scored in 5 point auto is the same as a ball scored in the 10 point goal.

[FTC G-FORCE]

yes but even if they did'nt get any of the 8 balls in the 5 point goll and they don't get the 40 points and you move the spin bar then your partner and you need to save your 8 balls then when you spin it then you have -40 and they have 0 and the 8 balls are on the floor i can't see how that will help (but its not my team so do whatever you fell like) + by doing that in auto mode i think the judgs won't like that and if other teams see you doing that they might not won't you as a partner.

[Chris is me]

well, they will not get 40 extra points in autonomous, and if you or your opponent pick up even 1 ball, it'd be a net gain for you.

That being said, this strategy will almost never appear. It might happen once in eliminations. It's something to consider but it's not only beneficial solely to teams that are facing opponents that always score in auto... if the opponents catch on and don't fire in auto, they can just not fire.

[FTC G-FORCE]

ok blue (you) did the spin bar now 8 of reds balls are on the floor its the end of auto mode blue has -40 points and red has 0 points so how can that help, think about it

[Chris is me]

It helps because otherwise it'd be (effectively) 0 blue, 40 + 40 = 80 red.

[FTC G-FORCE]

no unless you and your partner cant shoot them in the 5 point goll then it would be like that IF the other team get all 8 in the 5 point goll in ayto mode and if they get the yellow ball in also,but you do whatever i just think it would'nt be that smart to do it.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by FTC G-FORCE

no unless you and your partner cant shoot them in the 5 point goll then it would be like that IF the other team get all 8 in the 5 point goll in ayto mode and if they get the yellow ball in also,but you do whatever i just think it would'nt be that smart to do it.

Yes, this strategy would only be used if both opponents scored 8 balls or more in autonomous and you couldn't. That's why you'll never see it.

You get points for balls in autonomous, then you get points again at the end of the game. No doubler ball needed. Essentially all balls scored in auto are worth double points.

[FTC G-FORCE]

ok, great now do you know that its not a smart thing to do (most of the time)

[JohnFogarty]

We reconfigured our loader 100% more efficiant!!, hahaaa i'm gonna post a vid. I'll give you a hint popcorn machine XD

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Yes, this strategy would only be used if both opponents scored 8 balls or more in autonomous and you couldn't. That's why you'll never see it.

You get points for balls in autonomous, then you get points again at the end of the game. No doubler ball needed. Essentially all balls scored in auto are worth double points.

Balls scored in auton. are essentially worth 15 points if there's a yellow ball in there. Balls scored without auto are worth 10.

It's because the balls are counted at the end of auton -- N balls
Plus whatever was scored during teleop - M balls

thus the point values are
5*[N + (N+M)*2]

or 5*[2N + N + 2M] = 5*[3N + 2M] -- thus since N represents autonomous balls, they're worth 5*3, or 15 points each with the double ball, meaning it's still worth it to do auto and get the ball. This makes for some very interesting math when making strategies, where impulse decisions can definitely cost you some points.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Balls scored in auton. are essentially worth 15 points if there's a yellow ball in there. Balls scored without auto are worth 10.

It's because the balls are counted at the end of auton -- N balls
Plus whatever was scored during teleop - M balls

thus the point values are
5*[N + (N+M)*2]

or 5*[2N + N + 2M] = 5*[3N + 2M] -- thus since N represents autonomous balls, they're worth 5*3, or 15 points each with the double ball, meaning it's still worth it to do auto and get the ball. This makes for some very interesting math when making strategies, where impulse decisions can definitely cost you some points.

This is an interesting way of looking at things. While my gut response is "well you could just double the 10 point goal to make every 10 point ball worth MORE than an autonomous scored, then doubled ball", you do have to consider how accurate and fast your 10 point puker has to be. It's easier to shoot one ball with defense than 25.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

This is an interesting way of looking at things. While my gut response is "well you could just double the 10 point goal to make every 10 point ball worth MORE than an autonomous scored, then doubled ball", you do have to consider how accurate and fast your 10 point puker has to be. It's easier to shoot one ball with defense than 25.

Additionally, you have to look at the time scale. Since there are 30 seconds in autonomous, teams have ample opportunity to get plenty of balls in during auton (I bet the average team that tries at Nat'ls will get 23 balls per auton with several alliances getting 38+). The more the better, obviously, but there's only so much guarantee that a team will get to their second chute during autonomous.

In any case with a sufficient amount of balls in during autonomous, all an alliance has to do is block opponents' bonus ball chutes and/or outer goal shots during endgame. Ball for ball without bonus, auton balls are worth just as much as outer goal balls. Since the alliance who scored only autonomously would be ahead in quantity at the start of endgame, they can afford to use both alliance robots for effective defense in order to win. Perhaps you could let them score a little to up your QP, but that's somewhat difficult to do yet also guarantee a win. Personally I'd rather guarantee the win.