FIRST inspections ( following rules )

[Caleb Osborne]

I think FIRST should have more than one inspection at competitions. I've seen teams pass inspection, then put illegal materials on their robots...knowing no one will stop them. FIRST needs to either do inspections more than once a competition, have someone monitor teams, and/or do more weigh ins to keep things honest. I think that would keep teams from cheating at the competitions.

[Ian W.]

well, you must remember that at anytime you think a robot had an unfair advantage over your team, or any other team, i think that you may call that, and then they will be subject to another inspection. if they pass, well, you look very foolish. if they fail, then i believe they are given a DQ. it's not the best system, but it works.

[E. The Kidd]

I believe this topic came up once before some one proposed that the initial inspection take place and smaller ones take place on the queuing line. Also before a team is placed on the field they are to be weighed to make sure they have not added anything to their robot.

[ChrisH]

Originally posted by Ian W.
well, you must remember that at anytime you think a robot had an unfair advantage over your team, or any other team, i think that you may call that, and then they will be subject to another inspection. if they pass, well, you look very foolish. if they fail, then i believe they are given a DQ. it's not the best system, but it works.

Unfortunately, it doesn't. When we tried to exercise this system in LA we were told that all the inspectors were busy doing other things. Admittedly this was on Saturday, so the organizers figured that they could reassign people at that point.

Personally, I think that there should be multiple tech inspections. The robots should be inspected electrically, mechanically and for compliance with materials rules, in addition to the safety and dimensional checks. I also think that inspectors should come from other teams that are active that year, but are not competing at the event. The inspectors should also be experts in the area they are inspecting. ie, I shouldn't be doing electrical inspections, as I'm a mechanical sort of guy, but I sure know my motors. I know one team got away with using a van door motor because the inspector didn't know any better.

A second inspection for finals may be in order. They often do this in racing and other mechnical sports.

Finally, bring back the Bill of Materials. I know it was a pain, but it is helpful for determining just what is legal and what isn't. Include a column for jusitfication on each part, so the inspector knows why you think it's OK to use a particular item. He might even agree with you. We did that this year even though it wasn't required to ensure that all our stuff was legal. Actually it could be just an additional column on the weight spreadsheet you should be keeping anyway. (Unless you LIKE drilling thousands of holes)

[sanddrag]

If they had multiple weigh ins, the same scale would have to be used because even the most expensive same-model digital scales would have small differences. Our bot weighed in at exactly 130.0 and it could have been higher or lower on another scale.

As for inspections, the FIRST people are already uptight about time limitations so they just need one good inspection. For those of you who cheat or think its okay because everyone has it or does it, just get out!!!! And I do mean all of those bots with extenders. I know that FIRST made a big deal of no extenders and then everyone made them anyway and since everyone did it, they seemed to be okay. As far as I'm concerned, if you even have a question about if something is cheating or illegal, it is. Some of the rules are ridiculous but don't break them, just complain about them on this forum or at the FIRST Team Forums

[Wetzel]

Originally posted by Caleb Osborne
I think FIRST should have more than one inspection at competitions. I've seen teams pass inspection, then put illegal materials on their robots...knowing no one will stop them. FIRST needs to either do inspections more than once a competition, have someone monitor teams, and/or do more weigh ins to keep things honest. I think that would keep teams from cheating at the competitions.

If you see something that you think is illegal, ask someone in the pit something along the lines of "We considered using tha, but didn't see how it was legal. How'd you figure it?" Either they might not be aware, the inspection might have missed it, or in their haste to fix battle damage, might have used whatever was handy.


Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/me is listening to E:\Offspring\Conspiracy of One\The Offspring - All Along.mp3

[Jon K.]

And I do mean all of those bots with extenders. I know that FIRST made a big deal of no extenders and then everyone made them anyway and since everyone did it, they seemed to be okay.

this is a little harsh becuase in the beginning a lot of teams thought the same way and tried things to avoid the entanglement rule and then when FIRST changed the rules to allow extenders a lot of teams created them so how is that against the rules and how is that cheating???

[David Kelly]

Originally posted by jk2005

this is a little harsh becuase in the beginning a lot of teams thought the same way and tried things to avoid the entanglement rule and then when FIRST changed the rules to allow extenders a lot of teams created them so how is that against the rules and how is that cheating???

my biggest problem is FIRST changing the rules in the middle of the season. they can't make a decision and keep it. i sure hope this is discussed at the FIRST open forums coming up. and they do need to be more strict about enforcing the rules. a team near us at nationals deliberately put on a illegal material after getting inspected. it was noticed by many teams in the area. this team also managed to get very far in the finals of the competition. this is against the rule that all teams are supposed to follow called, "Gratious Professionalism". Libby Ritchie from team 393 can testify to this very fact.

I know this would slow everybody down, but after competition have the top 2 placing teams go through a post inspection....kind of like nascar how they inspect the winner after each race

[David Kelly]

Originally posted by D.J. Fluck
I know this would slow everybody down, but after competition have the top 2 placing teams go through a post inspection....kind of like nascar how they inspect the winner after each race

i think that could be something to put into consideration. its sad that we even have to discuss this, but i think it may be time for something like this to be implimented

[Jon K.]

maybe the top 2 teams but after finals matches could work too

[Caleb Osborne]

I think they could just have one ref just everyone now and then just take a look at different robots. Teams should be able to turn other teams in for illegal things and the refs should look at the robots. ( If they don't already )

[Sean_330]

I think maybe the queuing people could serve in a role of default inspectors. As i was doing queuing in SoCal, SV and Nat's, I noticed robots coming by with more and more obviously illegal materials as the day progressed. I think that FIRST should gave the queing ppl the power to refer teams back for re-inspection or better yet assign one inspector to assist the queuing team on each side. That way teams would be able to be inspected numerous times right before they compete.

Additionally, i think FIRST should have a sort of system where teams could report violations of the rules and get them checked out.

[asher]

If you see something that you think may be a problem just go ask the team, if they refuse to talk to you about it or whatnot they probably already know its illegal, kindly offer that they can take care of it or they can speak to an inspector if they choose not to. You can tell if they know what they are doing is wrong or not, and hey if they really didn't know (or even if they did) just help them fix it and move on.

ashley

[Libby Ritchie]

I think maybe the queuing people could serve in a role of default inspectors. As i was doing queuing in SoCal, SV and Nat's, I noticed robots coming by with more and more obviously illegal materials as the day progressed. I think that FIRST should gave the queing ppl the power to refer teams back for re-inspection or better yet assign one inspector to assist the queuing team on each side. That way teams would be able to be inspected numerous times right before they compete.

Additionally, i think FIRST should have a sort of system where teams could report violations of the rules and get them checked out.


__________________
Sean....I think this sounds like a great solution! I have thought many times that the queing people would serve this role well.

Though my team wasn't at Nats, our lead engineer and I went with 234 to help and observe. As we walked around the many pits at Nats, we were shocked at all of the very obvious illegal objects on several robots. It's one thing to slip something in that isn't obvious and not get caught, but to have something that EVERYONE can see that's illegal and not get "caught" is amazing! Both are wrong, but surely someone from FIRST could have stopped the very obvious ones as they came through.

It's like they turn their heads and shut their eyes to these things.