I Kept Quiet for far too long. This. Is. WAR!!!

[Swan217]

Added links for clarification. Will add more when I get home from work today.

As for WHY I'm blacklisted - you'd have to ask FIRST President Gail Alpert or one of the Michigan FIRST Board Members. They refuse to tell me. I have to presume that it's about refereeing calls.

Edit:

This may sound odd, but sometimes the best volunteers are willing to help, rather than wanting/demanding to help.

That's the reason I bit my tongue and kept silent last year and just went along with it. The news that Michigan FIRST is CONTINUING the blacklist next year is why I refuse to be bullied any longer.

[JaneYoung]

I'm not sure I quite understand what your intent is with posting this announcement in ChiefDelphi. It would seem that this is, at this point, personal business, and that you have contacted FIRST regarding your concerns. Beyond that, what else needed to be done? If you felt so strongly that you wanted to share your passionate attack (This.Is.WAR!!!), a better place to have created this thread, might have been in the anonymous forum where you would have had the level-headed wisdom of a moderator to assist you.

You are also including others in your attack that have, for their own reasons, decided not to follow this path of making a public announcement and declaration of 'WAR!!!' I hope that you have checked with them and received their permission to be included in this posting.

Jane

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

I'm not sure I quite understand what your intent is with posting this announcement in ChiefDelphi. It would seem that this is, at this point, personal business, and that you have contacted FIRST regarding your concerns. Beyond that, what else needed to be done?

I'm thinking that he's hoping the added effect of public pressure that posting such a letter might create would influence FiM or FIRST to do something it has not done alone, in a similar - yet less civil - manner to the request for transparency submitted a few weeks back. Not to say the situations are similar, but perhaps that's the line of logic followed.

[Alan Anderson]

I have no independent knowledge of the situation. Without more information, I cannot have an informed attitude towards Dan's position. But I don't think the Chief Delphi forums should be a battleground, and beyond that statement I will not discuss my thoughts on this topic publicly.

[Cory]

I don't see what you expect to achieve by posting here.

Public outcry?

I highly doubt you're going to get members of the ChiefDelphi community calling up FIRST HQ in arms about this.

Airing dirty laundry in public is never a good course of action.

[gblake]

CD isn't FIRST HQ, FIRST HQ isn't a state's FIRST "board". A state board isn't a Regional Director, etc.

So, who knows (no speculation please) the right place/person Dan should contact to untangle and resolve this.

It should turn out to be no big deal to get it cleared up. Let's do what CD does well by pointing him in the right direction and then move forward.

Blake

[EricH]

Originally Posted by gblake

So, who knows (no speculation please) the right place/person Dan should contact to untangle and resolve this.

Ordinarily, the volunteer coordinator is the one you'd go through. If that doesn't work, the Regional Director. With this being MI, you'd go to the MI state board. After the RD or state board, you'd go to whoever the appropriate person is at FRC HQ; namely, whoever is keeping an eye on the state board. From other communications, I get the distinct impression that this would be the FIRST Board of Directors or the FRC Director.

He sent it to them already. Therefore, posting here serves no purpose, other than to get emotions inflamed. When emotions rise, bad things happen.

I would like to express admiration for one thing in the letter, though. Namely, managing to keep a relatively even tone despite obviously simmering inside. That is a rare gift: showing emotion without losing a professional tone. Let's hope that it doesn't need to be cultivated often.

To the mods: Consider this a request that this thread have an eye kept on it to prevent a firestorm.

[Rion Atkinson]

Note: This entire post is in speculation.

For those of you who have said that this is nothing more than dirty laundry being let out to air. You are correct and wrong.

If you look at the top of the letter it states this was sent [to those who can fix it] on August 16, 2009.

That statement means that Mr. Swando has kept this private for as long as possible. But after several months of NO reply. Or possible just a bunch of red tape. He has kept quiet for as long as he can. He refuses to be treated like a number.

As we ALL know. Dave Lavery read CD. And several other FIRST "higher ups" so to speak. So. By posting it here he makes sure that those with power can see it. They may be completely unaware of the situation. Those with power can then help him, if they see fit to do so.

The Title.
By putting "This. Is. WAR!!" in the title of the thread is allows those who are just randomly searching to see it and read it. Thus. More publicity. More people see it. And yes. Numbers can be power. Chief Delphi is, as some have said, "here to help". Not "Here to point you away from us, then wash our hands of you." Which is how I am taking some of your posts. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I for one, for the moment, side with Mr. Swando

-Rion

[ATannahill]

I usually don't post in heated threads and I hope not to regret this.

Dan, I thank you for all the assistance and dedication you give to FIRST. You are someone I look up to.

I do not feel that giving negative feedback about how people, especially those who donate time, talent and other things, are treated is a bad thing. At times, I have felt abused by people that request my time and I walk away worked up. It is important to settle down over time, some things might take weeks or months, before talking to anyone about it. A letter this long obviously had time and thought put into it. If it is posted here after three months than Dan has thought it through and stands by it.

I wish you the best of luck. Remember, if FiM doesn't want you in one of the positions then don't be discouraged, you shouldn't let the board members control your emotions.

[Molten]

If they don't want you, don't volunteer. If your a good volunteer, it's their loss. I really can't judge your abilities from the few posts I've read from you. However, I must side with those that say CD simply isn't the place for this. As someone posted earlier, Dave might stumble acrossed this...but so what? What are you expecting him or anyone else to do? You've contacted the people you need, now you really need to just wait. It might take years but that's what needs to be done.

Last note: Always think to yourself, is this the message I want passed onto my students? If you really want this to be the example you set, keep doing it. I, for one, wouldn't want to set such an example.

Sorry for the annoyance of this post, it just seems people are using CD more and more as a battleground. Please don't do that no matter what the battle is.

Sincerely,
Jason

So, is the TL;DR for this post "Bawwwwww, they won't let me do the volunteer job I used to do?"

That's all I read from it...

Forgive me if that's a little harsh, but FIRST isn't yours. It isn't an open organization nor is it controlled by outside members. FIRST let you help out. It's their organization, and thus their choice who helps and who doesn't. We appreciate your help in the past, don't get me wrong. But opening up some dirty laundry isn't exactly the best image to be showing off of oneself...

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by gblake

CD isn't FIRST HQ, FIRST HQ isn't a state's FIRST "board". A state board isn't a Regional Director, etc

Originally Posted by Formerly Famous

As we ALL know. Dave Lavery read CD. And several other FIRST "higher ups" so to speak. So. By posting it here he makes sure that those with power can see it. They may be completely unaware of the situation. Those with power can then help him, if they see fit to do so.

I'll not comment on the actual post, only a technical "point of order":

ChiefDelphi is NOT an official FIRST forum. If one wishes to communicate with FIRST, it is best done through an official channel, such as in a letter or on the FIRST forum.

If, however, one wishes to communicate with a section of the FIRST participants, ChiefDelphi is the place. But it's unofficial!

.

[JesseK]

Heh, this isn't 'war'. It's a robotics forum. Sure, it's a place to air out dirty laundry from time to time, but to 'wage war' against FIRST is to undermine the entire reason you volunteered in the first place ... right? So what you don't see eye to eye with the organization in everything it does. It isn't the first, and won't be the last. Such is life as an engineer, and you should learn to get over it.

Of course this is only my menial, unofficial, ambiguous, and otherwise fully c.y.a.'ed and caveat'ed opinion. It's even slightly uninformed because after the first paragraph I thought "dear God, it's another rant that goes on for ages" ... so I didn't even read the rest.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

Forgive me if that's a little harsh, but FIRST isn't yours. It isn't an open organization nor is it controlled by outside members. FIRST let you help out. It's their organization, and thus their choice who helps and who doesn't. We appreciate your help in the past, don't get me wrong. But opening up some dirty laundry isn't exactly the best image to be showing off of oneself...

I chuckled at the highlighted contradiction in pronouns a little Also: This. Is. Sparta! (ok ok I'm only here for comic relief)

On a serious note: (I'm not going to comment on if Swando's post belongs in the public domain or not.)

What I am wondering is if FIRST as a whole, or Regional Directors/VCs, should be allowed to pass judgement on something like this. A bad call from the past really doesn't seem like it deems a blacklisted volunteer.

My question is: Unless there's a significant negative effect of a certain person volunteering, is it really, oh hell I'll say the word, "fair" for FIRST to publish someone on a blacklist based on trivial impetus?

Also, I'm curious how you came to this conclusion, Craig. Care to elaborate?

[Rion Atkinson]

Let me point out that I do not mean to attack him. I am simply trying to understand his reasoning.

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

So, is the TL;DR for this post "Bawwwwww, they won't let me do the volunteer job I used to do?"

That's all I read from it...

Forgive me if that's a little harsh, but FIRST isn't yours. It isn't an open organization nor is it controlled by outside members. FIRST let you help out. It's their organization, and thus their choice who helps and who doesn't. We appreciate your help in the past, don't get me wrong. But opening up some dirty laundry isn't exactly the best image to be showing off of oneself...

Point 1.

From what I understood his email was not about not being able to do the job he wanted. Yes. He was mad about that. But by looking at this email as a whole is covers that fact that, yes, he was unable to do his job. Why? Because of something that happened that he saw no problem with at the time. He was then blacklisted. And not told. (Personally, I think a person has a right to be told when they have been blacklisted) This hurt his chances of volunteering at all. So overall, He is not crying about not getting the spot he wanted. But instead addressing the simple problem he was faced with. He was blacklisted, not allowed to work where he desired due to being blacklisted, not told until AFTER someone and changed where he said he wanted to. And on top of that, lied to.

That is just what I got out of his letter. I didn't hear crying as I read it but a calm voice with passion behind it. Could you please explain to me how you came to your conclusion?


Point 2.

On the note of FIRST isn't ours, if not the teams, then whose is it? If not for those who help run it, how could it be here? Who exactly does it belong to?