The correct way to respond to misspelling and grammar

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by BobC

It's all cool. We are not all rocket scientist...

Speak for yourself.

-dave

p.s. And count me in with the majority. Refusing to answer a question until someone corrects their spelling and grammar mistakes seems more than a little pedantic and self-defeating. Is it incumbent upon the person with the questioning post to make their best efforts to communicate clearly? Of course. But for those that choose to provide an answer, it is also their responsibility to provide a useful, responsive and supportive reply that provides added value. Anything else is just noise.



.

Ah, how I love a barely veiled call out.

First, you seem to have misquoted something there:

If you ask this question there, and do it with proper spelling and word use, I'll respond with my rationale.

(The proper quote, taken from my outbox. At least keep things in context, if you're going to do this.)
The attempt was to encourage a discussion in open channel, rather than expecting a personalized explanation in private. The entire point of a forum is open discussion and archive information. Effectively a forum is a knowledge base. When you request clarification that would lead to normal conversation, it is not only polite, but very prudent to do it in open channel. After all, private messages are for private issues.

Now, since most of CD already thinks I'm an $@#$@#$@# (And I don't blame them, as it is quite hard to carry tonal inflection across the intertubes), I may as well move on to the issue of proper communication: In my field of work as well as the majority of the professional sector, it is impossible to carry out business without impeccable communication. A single misspelling reveals a lack of focus on detail, something that employer do not look favorably upon. My terse tone was a failed attempt at conveying this lesson (and an important one indeed, as it lost me a fairly decent contract due to a single spelling error...), apparently. I have always been raised on tough teaching, and I suppose it's a weakness of mine that I emulate that myself.

On to the claimed "refusal to reply." Keeping up on seventeen forums, six email accounts, and three IM accounts is a bit of an overload. Apologies for missing one post (I see now that you posted your question back in the forum, I'll head over there to answer it next), but there has simply been too much to keep up on.

[Alivia]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

Ah, how I love a barely veiled call out.

First, you seem to have misquoted something there: (The proper quote, taken from my outbox. At least keep things in context, if you're going to do this.)
The attempt was to encourage a discussion in open channel, rather than expecting a personalized explanation in private. The entire point of a forum is open discussion and archive information. Effectively a forum is a knowledge base. When you request clarification that would lead to normal conversation, it is not only polite, but very prudent to do it in open channel. After all, private messages are for private issues.

Now, since most of CD already thinks I'm an $@#$@#$@# (And I don't blame them, as it is quite hard to carry tonal inflection across the intertubes), I may as well move on to the issue of proper communication: In my field of work as well as the majority of the professional sector, it is impossible to carry out business without impeccable communication. A single misspelling reveals a lack of focus on detail, something that employer do not look favorably upon. My terse tone was a failed attempt at conveying this lesson (and an important one indeed, as it lost me a fairly decent contract due to a single spelling error...), apparently. I have always been raised on tough teaching, and I suppose it's a weakness of mine that I emulate that myself.

On to the claimed "refusal to reply." Keeping up on seventeen forums, six email accounts, and three IM accounts is a bit of an overload. Apologies for missing one post (I see now that you posted your question back in the forum, I'll head over there to answer it next), but there has simply been too much to keep up on.

I do agree that proper context makes a difference, as the original post made your tone seem much more discourteous than it actually was, so I appreciate seeing the quote directly as it was. However, I must disagree about your statements on PMs. Many new users to CD use private messages as a way to ask questions of clarification, as they do not want to appear to be asking a "stupid question" (if those exist). If I was confused on something a person had said, I would probably private message them myself, especially if others seemed to understand perfectly well what the person had articulated. Furthermore, how does one decide if a matter is fit for communication in a forum or rather more fit in a private message? Are there guidelines for this? Perhaps this is what led to the original posters confusion, and why he felt the need to make a thread on the topic instead of PMing you again.

I couldn't agree with you more regarding communication. It is indeed very important to effectively communicate ones ideas and thoughts completely and concisely for others to take you seriously. It's a shame that a single misspelling error on your part lost you a contract, because all people DO make mistakes. However, if everyone based communication off of spelling or grammar errors in every instance, I shouldn't even be responding to your post right now. If we based communication off of this, people reading the thread might disregard what you have to say because you forgot to tack on a simple 's' on 'employers'. Is this right? Are your arguments null and void because you didn't catch this? Do I think you have a lack of focus in regards to CD? No. Of course not. Your message came across crystal clear, even with these minor errors.

I also would like to point out that CD is NOT a place of business. It's exactly what you said--a forum. A place to have open discussion. Where are the rules that say this discussion must have proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc., to be effective? If a person gets "reprimanded" (and I use that in the loosest sense of the word) for asking a question, I feel as if discussion can't be very open.

Just my .02. Again I'd like to thank you though, for posting the original message.

[Rion Atkinson]

I would like to say that Alivia is right to a point. I did indeed think that it was more appropriate to ask my question via a PM simply because I felt it was not a "big" issue and felt it was better asked in a PM than risk causing a huge problem in the thread.

I would also like to publicly apologize to Craig. I did not mean for it to be known he was the sender of the message, but certain post made that impossible to do. So I centralized the information given in those posts on my OP. I am sorry for that Craig. I was trying to address the way in which one should respond to misspellings and grammatical errors. It went about doing so in the wrong way.

Again. I apologize for this.

-Rion

(Oh. And Craig. On the Six email accounts, I recommend using Mozilla Thunderbird. I only have 2, but that's bow I keep track of them all. )

[JaneYoung]

All the good intentions of folks that are focused on misspelled words, grammar, and punctuation - just may be backfiring to some extent. I include myself in being a part of the reason that is behind the backfiring. We may be making it too uncomfortable for people to post here at the moment. Even worse, they may feel uncomfortable in an e-mail exchange. I am experiencing a little of that with some people whose opinions I value and trust, but who are feeling somewhat intimidated by all of this judgment.

At some point, even for me, this gets just too weird to deal with. I'm as excited as everyone else is regarding the upcoming season, but I hope I don't spend my time on CD creating an atmosphere that feels vise-like and hypercritical. If I do, please send me a pm and tell me to cut it out. This is a community made up of FIRSTers and people who support FIRST. I'd love to see some threads discussing that - building community, sharing information, networking. We're going to need that as more and more opportunities head our way over the next few months and years.

Jane

[JudyVandy]

All right, I've had it. My cup has overflown! (Is that the correct form of the verb???)

I am a curmudgeon about the proper form of written English, but I think that some of us have gone over the top here.

To be short and relatively sweet, refusing to answer an honest question which may have a few incidental grammar or spelling errors is not gracious.

We are human and very few of us have never made such mistakes. (Proofread some of the posts!)

In my opinion, a gentle reminder, done privately and addressing the specific situation, is the most gracious way to address an individual situation.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by JudyVandy

All right, I've had it. My cup has overflown! (Is that the correct form of the verb???)

I am a curmudgeon about the proper form of written English, but I think that some of us have gone over the top here.

To be short and relatively sweet, refusing to answer an honest question which may have a few incidental grammar or spelling errors is not gracious.

We are human and very few of us have never made such mistakes. (Proofread some of the posts!)

In my opinion, a gentle reminder, done privately and addressing the specific situation, is the most gracious way to address an individual situation.

I do not think I could of said it any better.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

These boards are for open communication.

Communication is an attempt to convey information, and gain an understanding between the sender and the recipients.

Grammar and spelling are nothing but the rules by which we gain that understanding.

When people decide not to follow those rules they run the risk of not being understood, and the information failing to be transferred. Since this writing is the only information we have to judge the writer, we may come to believe that that person is less intelligent (be that true or not, it will be the view of those who cannot understand his writing). Remember, you will be judged not only by what you write, but by how you write because it is all we have to go on.

The above, as normal, is JM(NS)HO.

[BobC]

BUT NOT EVERYONE IS AS WELL EDUCATED AS SOME OTHERS. SOME PEOPLE HAVE LIFE LONG LEARNING DISABILITIES AND MAY NOT HAVE THE CAPABILITIES TO COMMUNICATE PROPERLY. ALL ANYONE DOES IS COME HERE LOOKING FOR HELP. TRY TO COMMUNICATE TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES. THEN THEY GET SHUT OFF BECAUSE THEY SPELLED A WORD WRONG OR DID NOT FORM A PROPER SENTENCE SHAME ON THE PEOPLE THAT WILL NOT HELP THEM.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by BobC

BUT NOT EVERYONE IS AS WELL EDUCATED AS SOME OTHERS. SOME PEOPLE HAVE LIFE LONG LEARNING DISABILITIES AND MAY NOT HAVE THE CAPABILITIES TO COMMUNICATE PROPERLY. ALL ANYONE DOES IS COME HERE LOOKING FOR HELP. TRY TO COMMUNICATE TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES. THEN THEY GET SHUT OFF BECAUSE THEY SPELLED A WORD WRONG OR DID NOT FORM A PROPER SENTENCE SHAME ON THE PEOPLE THAT WILL NOT HELP THEM.

I know someone like that, in fact they are a very good friend of mine. They do indeed try to the best of their abilities but they recognize that they often have a hard time saying what they think. I respect these people for trying.

We aren't talking about "shutting off" anyone because they misspelled a word. We are discussing not responding to someone who has obviously not made any effort to communicate in a socially acceptable manner. When I see a post that is terrible one day I probably respond. If the next post is terrible I might shoot them a PM (unless it is obvious they are just bad at English). If they respond to the PM blowing me off with "Bah, I am too busy to be bothered." then I will not answer another question they ask. I may even go so far as to hit the neg rep button on the next poorly written post in a last ditch effort to let them know it is not an effective way of communicating.

On a semi related note. Do you really need to use Caps Lock? It makes your post go from a great post to reading solely as "RAGE! ARGH!!!!!!!"

[BobC]

It was meant to be rage because I am upset about this subject. That some people thinking they are better than others without knowing them. It may keep some people from asking questions because they are afraid they will get ridiculed.

[David Brinza]

if some one posts a question without anypunktuation or capital letters were it is two hard to figure wut there axing i might answer there question but i might comment on there gramer and speling two.

Any problems with that??

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by BobC

BUT NOT EVERYONE IS AS WELL EDUCATED AS SOME OTHERS. SOME PEOPLE HAVE LIFE LONG LEARNING DISABILITIES AND MAY NOT HAVE THE CAPABILITIES TO COMMUNICATE PROPERLY. ALL ANYONE DOES IS COME HERE LOOKING FOR HELP. TRY TO COMMUNICATE TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES. THEN THEY GET SHUT OFF BECAUSE THEY SPELLED A WORD WRONG OR DID NOT FORM A PROPER SENTENCE SHAME ON THE PEOPLE THAT WILL NOT HELP THEM.

Ow! Ow! Ow!
That hurts my eyes!
Please, somebody make him stop...

I'll be good and promise to answer questions, I swear...

[Molten]

Originally Posted by BobC

TRY TO COMMUNICATE TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES.

This is the perfect example of someone not trying to communicate to the best of their abilities. If someone were to continually post in all caps, I'd stop reading their posts. There is no disability that causes a person to lose control of their caps lock key. There is also no excuse for not capitalizing your sentences. I understand that some may not be able to form sentences properly. I also understand that some people can't spell the best. Can someone name a disability that causes the person to speak in leet? Or that takes away their control of their caps lock/shift key? If not, then there really isn't an excuse for these type of problems.

Also, it really doesn't matter how much something annoys you...there is no need for yelling on CD.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Molten

There is no disability that causes a person to lose control of their caps lock key. There is also no excuse for not capitalizing your sentences. I understand that some may not be able to form sentences properly. I also understand that some people can't spell the best. Can someone name a disability that causes the person to speak in leet? Or that takes away their control of their caps lock/shift key? If not, then there really isn't an excuse for these type of problems.

I think we need to draw a line between what is obvious laziness and a genuine problem with written communication. If someone is writing in LEET or without any attempt to form sentences, and is clearly a native English speaker, I'm with the "no tolerance" faction. If someone simply has trouble writing I suggest total support and flexibility. Poor writing is not an automatic indicator of laziness, not caring, stupidity, or even lack of literacy.

I know of three things that make someone's writing hard to read through no fault of their own, and I am sure there are other causes. First, there are a lot of dyslexic (why do I always want to spell that incorrectly?) people in the world. Both of my siblings and one of my best friends have severe problems with dyslexia. None of them write particularly well, but all try hard and are at least as smart as the average CDer. Second, people with autistic spectrum disorders MAY tend to write in non-standard ways. I know a gifted hands-on techie who writes very clearly, but uses non-standard capitalization all the time. This used to annoy me until he explained that he is mildly Autistic and has never been able to understand grammar rules, so he tends to over-capitalize. Third, non-native English speakers have as much trouble writing in English as I, with my high-school German far in the past, would have in writing German.

My recommendation here is to cut a lot of slack to someone who simply does not write very well. You don't know what their problem is, so there is no need to be judgmental. On the other hand, someone writing like they are using their cell for text messaging deserves the pillory.