[BB] 2010 Game Hint #1

[JesseK]

This type of thread is the #1 reason why the GDC doesn't need to solicit ideas from the FRC community, ever. From one simple CAD rendering of a seemingly rudimentary field element piece the GDC has captured at least 100 ideas for 2011.

[johnr]

If this object is a true representation of a field element, how would you build a cheap practice field copy? Where would you find something similar to that lexan piece? Plumbing, heating or wood department at home depot? Would pvc pipes actually slide over each other? Why the end pins have holes? Why have a spacer b/t the lexan and large pipe? So many questions, so little time.I believe this object is a wild rep of a catamaran. Connect some lines from the end pins to the lexan/sail and off you go. Or not.

[skimoose]

Originally Posted by TEntwistle

Excellent job on the reverse engineering. It appears to me that the shadow nobody can explain appears on your 50% transparency render. Is there any reason why this should be? Does it suggest that it is indeed coming from this piece and not from somewhere else? Would the fact that you had to render it with 50% transparency be part of the clue itself?

The shadow still appears because its part of the original game hint image. The 50% transparency isn't referring to re-rendering the original image (we can't because we don't possess the original CAD file)Art took the original rendered game hint image made it 50% transparent and laid it over the top of his Solidworks reverse engineered render. You can see both images laid one over the other. Since nearly all the critical points line up, it confirms that at least proportionally his drawing is sound. The longer 1" schedule 40 aluminum pipes are a little too long in his model as can be seen by the fact that they don't line up at the rear (right side) of the drawing. I think Art's pretty close though, 1" schedule 40 aluminum is the exact size FIRST has used in the past for connector pins in standard field construction/assembly and he arrived at this dimension by extrapolating off the 0.25" lexan assumption. His methodology was thorough and I'm confident his model is pretty close. It took a while to get the reflections and shadows close (two light sources at to different positions) and we can only surmise that the rendering engines work slightly differently between Inventor and Solidworks.

That said, we have a close idea as to the size and composition of this field element, but are no closer to understanding how it will be used this year.

Originally Posted by TEntwistle

Why have they given us a Classmate PC to use this year? My guess is so we can (or will have to) navigate the robot based on a camera image, and that we need the capability for real-time (within a few msec, or whatever the technology can give us) video to compete.

They are giving us a Classmate PC to replace last year's driver station that was plagued by static discharge issues. I suspect that PCs were FIRST's original plan for last year, but it just couldn't get finished in time. This shows clearly the Beta test DS layout and there is a space for the camera image. This layout can also be customized by teams. To what exact level I'm not sure yet, but the topic was mentioned during a webcast training session.

Anyway, that a very small image on the DS to navigate from, and the rate of image transmission isn't real-time, and it would eat up huge amounts of bandwidth, I don't think we're quite ready for live camera feed on all team levels yet.

Will the camera be important in this year's game? Maybe, probably, but the past games have always had other ways to achieve reasonable results with or without the camera. I wouldn't expect it to be much different this year. It all depends on how well your team can think outside the box, and overcome obstacles.



Instead of trying to read something into that reflection/refraction on the image, we need to concentrate on how this will be incorporated into the field, and why the GDC chose what appears to be smoked or tinted lexan for this component. Surely, the choice of materials is important.

[RoboMaster]

Here's what artdutra04 was talking about with the still-visible reflection on his reverse-engineered part. It's more clear with high contrast.

Also, if the reflection is truly from a different part, why not try to recreate that part too and place it in a way that it will be reflected? Then we can also see where the reflection is coming from.

[Rick TYler]

Just a modest request for folks NOT to put 3000-pixel-wide pictures inline in the forum. A link to the big picture works just as well while keeping the text readable. Thanks.

[terryo]

If this is part of a rail system for a ball - (the support structure which can have extension tubes attached at each end- then another support, etc) - then maybe the game involves alliance members placing a ball at one end of the rail and retreiving it from the other. Or not.
Maybe the smoked polycarbonate and the reflections are the true hint:

SMOKE AND MIRRORS...

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by terryo

If this is part of a rail system for a ball - (the support structure which can have extension tubes attached at each end- then another support, etc) - then maybe the game involves alliance members placing a ball at one end of the rail and retreiving it from the other.

I wonder...If FIRST has some kind of "rule" in their game designing that requires the audience to see whats happening. I bet we could narrow down the extent of the "rails" and the locations of their "support structures" if having too many would block the audience view of the game.

[TD912]

http://www.nuk3.com/gallery/comedy/1...mberplate.html

Man, this discussion reminds me of that...

Anyway, although the lexan/polycarb piece should be able to hold a 120 lb. robot, I doubt it will be used for that. I still think it's some kind of gamepiece holder that's attached to the two pipes. The piece might 'hang' from it. Except I don't know what that arc is for...

[jamie_1930]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

I wonder...If FIRST has some kind of "rule" in their game designing that requires the audience to see whats happening. I bet we could narrow down the extent of the "rails" and the locations of their "support structures" if having too many would block the audience view of the game.

It may not be an official rule with the GDC, but it's at least an unspoken guideline because for FIRST were constantly trying to expand the organization and the mssion of FIRST, to educate people in math science and technology. In order to do that the first thing is to build interest and if you want to build interest it needs to be a game that is entertaining and understandable for the audience, and not just the rest of the team, the people we kept bugging all week saying you got to come check this out.

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by jamie_1930

It may not be an official rule with the GDC, but it's at least an unspoken guideline because for FIRST were constantly trying to expand the organization and the mssion of FIRST, to educate people in math science and technology. In order to do that the first thing is to build interest and if you want to build interest it needs to be a game that is entertaining and understandable for the audience, and not just the rest of the team, the people we kept bugging all week saying you got to come check this out.

Also, keep in mind that not being able to see the game would totally kill the teams that scout during the games. 1189 received the J&J GP award at Detroit last year largely due to our scouting system (scouting during the match, and making the resulting data publicly available to other teams), and not being able to see the field would greatly affect teams like us.

[Chris is me]

If FIRST makes a field invisible to the audience, I will buy every team a dozen Krispy Kremes. The whole idea of a robot competition is geared around spectators. Take that away and you have a science fair.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

If FIRST makes a field invisible to the audience, I will buy every team a dozen Krispy Kremes.

A completely invisible field would be very cool. Is this a challenge to the GDC?

[AcesJames]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

A completely invisible field would be very cool. Is this a challenge to the GDC?

A challenge would be making the field visible to spectators, but invisible to drivers and human players

[Steven Sigley]

They did that in 2008 with the ghosting of robots in the Lexan.

[Eugene Fang]

Hmmm... One of our member's parents found this: