2010 Game Hint #2

[jamie_1930]

A lot of people have been saying that there won't be regolith this year, and I was myself, but I'm starting to miss it already. With the regolith we didn't have to worry about pinning or ramming penalties and it gave us a chance to really see how robust are robots are.

Also thinking about it now, I know we don't see any regolith in the picture, but would FIRST really get all new flooring for the fields costing them money as well as every team, and then never use it again? I don't think regolith is gone and maybe it won't cover the entire field like it did last year, but it will probably be on some sections of the field. Like how last year for FTC there were certain panels with different properities, like bumpy surfaces and rollers.

Lastly when we're thinking about what the game will be this year don't think there will be some sigh of relief and the game will be easier than last year. That's not why we're in this competition, we're here to challenge ourselves with new and harder problems, and thankfully FIRST has been keeping up with that and challenging us every year.

[IndySam]

The regolith was a specific solution to the problem of simulating gravity last year. It was used very hard over many regionals. There was much damage and cracking. Just like the carpets from past seasons it will not be reused.

[EricH]

FIRST also uses two rolls of carpet per regional, both for the field. Both arrive new. Neither travels with the field to the next event. Local teams typically get to the carpet to help them run offseasons and other things of that nature.

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by jamie_1930

Also thinking about it now, I know we don't see any regolith in the picture, but would FIRST really get all new flooring for the fields costing them money as well as every team, and then never use it again? I don't think regolith is gone and maybe it won't cover the entire field like it did last year, but it will probably be on some sections of the field. Like how last year for FTC there were certain panels with different properities, like bumpy surfaces and rollers.

The carpet has always been replaced at every event, as was the regolith last year. They have a one and done policy.

[jerry w]

Originally Posted by eagle33199

I've seen quite a bit of assumptions floated here without much to back them up. For example - how much of the playing field does clue #2 show? To determine this, we'll base it off the official field drawings from last year (http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/...aspx?id=11624).

Those drawings dictate that the rail is roughly 18 inches high, and the spacing between the vertical supports is roughly 72 inches - with the exception of the sides next to the ramp (the two fully visible sections in the clue) - those are roughly 49 inches wide.

....

I agree with you that we should use the best measurement we can find. But disagree with your selection of parts. The three full-sections of rail shown in the image are all the 72-inch length. The gate is now wider than previous years. With the extra rail visible on the ends of the image we have nearly 22 feet of rail visible. That is 40% of the standard field length. Thus we are seeing much more (80%) with symmetry.
The middle 10% of the field could have a stripe on the floor. But there is not much room for a structure like the rack-n-roll tower . . . etc.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by jerry w

I agree with you that we should use the best measurement we can find. But disagree with your selection of parts. The three full-sections of rail shown in the image are all the 72-inch length. The gate is now wider than previous years. With the extra rail visible on the ends of the image we have nearly 22 feet of rail visible. That is 40% of the standard field length. Thus we are seeing much more (80%) with symmetry.
The middle 10% of the field could have a stripe on the floor. But there is not much room for a structure like the rack-n-roll tower . . . etc.

I have opened and closed those gates more times that I could count and they really don't look any bigger to me. Has anyone done the measuring to confirm they are bigger?

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by jerry w

I agree with you that we should use the best measurement we can find. But disagree with your selection of parts. The three full-sections of rail shown in the image are all the 72-inch length. The gate is now wider than previous years. With the extra rail visible on the ends of the image we have nearly 22 feet of rail visible. That is 40% of the standard field length. Thus we are seeing much more (80%) with symmetry.
The middle 10% of the field could have a stripe on the floor. But there is not much room for a structure like the rack-n-roll tower . . . etc.

Take a look at it again. If we make the (logical) assumption that the side barriers are 18 inches high like they have been in the past, you can't have each section be 72 inches based on the picture - each section would have to be 4 times longer than it is tall, while the picture is clearly closer to 2 times longer than it is tall. You state the gate is wider, but the picture simply doesn't back that up when you start measuring what is shown. in order to be 72 inches wide, the side barriers would have to stand 3 feet tall - much higher than they have in the past. While this is possible (as there's no frame of reference for us in the picture), I'm guessing it's pretty unlikely as it would obstruct the view too much for the audience.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by Karibou

It's been discussed, and that idea has actually come up several times in the 500-some posts of the thread.

Last year's fish indicated a slippery surface and the idea of the moon. There was plenty of reliability in that, it was simply over-analyzed.
[:

Last year's first hint (the fish) was called a MOONFISH hence the theme for the game...

perhaps the piece in the first hint was simply intended to look like a track,,,

hence some type of train or track theme for this game...

This hint.... not white regolith? carpet perhaps.....or some other dark surface.

Speculation about a hint should never be based on something that is left out of an image.....one can only analyze what IS there in the image..

If we start speculating about a big open field as some have suggested ... we might just as well speculate about a game with no robots...

[SpaceOsc]

Originally Posted by IndySam

I have opened and closed those gates more times that I could count and they really don't look any bigger to me. Has anyone done the measuring to confirm they are bigger?

[MiniNerd24]

This might have been said already but if you ask me when they posted this hint they intended for it to show us something, and you guys have made excellent guesses but I think that it may be more of an update than a clue.
My thoughts: The layout of these gates are different than last year, for example, they could be on the two long ends of the field (two per a half field) and essentially turning the field sideways and putting players along the long ends, which may or may not add space for three teams to have maybe an opening onto the field (like the Air Lok for moon rocks last year) instead of just two team players using field scoring (again with the moon rocks being scored form behind the wall). Again they probably show a gate to give us a hint, but it might just be saying "hy, we're moving the gates on the field this year."
Just my thoughts. Sorry if it soundd like I was bashing somebody's idea(s).

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

Last year's first hint (the fish) was called a MOONFISH hence the theme for the game...

perhaps the piece in the first hint was simply intended to look like a track,,,

hence some type of train or track theme for this game...

This hint.... not white regolith? carpet perhaps.....or some other dark surface.

Speculation about a hint should never be based on something that is left out of an image.....one can only analyze what IS there in the image..

If we start speculating about a big open field as some have suggested ... we might just as well speculate about a game with no robots...

Tracks? Dark surface that might not be carpet? Game with no robots?

I got it! Introducing the real McCoy 2010 game: Ballast Regulation!




// Don't let my loco motives derail this thread.

[EricH]

You know, I think that the game theme is going to be parallel.

Think about it. Dave's Morse hints point to telegraph stuff. Telegraph wires were often run in parallel, the better to keep going if one failed. More than that, they ran alongside railroad tracks, the better to maintain them. I have yet to see a train track where the rails aren't parallel, save on the open side of a switch.

Now, Hint #1 shows a device that has parallel rails. It goes on the field somewhere, most likely.

Hint #2 shows a field border, which has parallel rails. Again, it goes on/next to the field.

It's a parallel game. Now to figure out what the parallels are between the hints and the game objects...

[Prash R.]

This is interesting because the gate is placed in a way that we can't see the driver station wall, which is usually visible. Also the gate does look to be a bit wider. So possibly, if the gate is moved closer to the center, we may have less robots on the field, that have larger dimensions. But MOST definitely not 1 v 1 like some were saying. First is trying to speed up games, and not make them last 5 days

[Tetraman]

I highly doubt that they will add/subtract teams to the field. I could see a 2v2v2 game, but I don't like the idea when it's painfully obvious that the Red and Blue Alliance could "team up" against the Yellow alliance. Plus having a third team to add to the Elimination bracket would be a pain. Maybe if the field was split up into thirds and there was a robot per alliance to a third, that would get you a "1v1" game

[IndySam]

I can't imagine the nightmare of having to cue up three different alliance.