New Game Criticism

[Lil' Lavery]

Seeing as the game is less than 12 hours old, I'm not really going to criticize much of the game until it has digested further. And my initial reaction is rather positive to this game, seems like it has a lot of potential.

The one qualm I shall raise is with the new ranking system. While I will reserve judgment as to how it will impact the tournament and rankings, it seems to conflict with the increased emphasis on similarities to sports and viewer friendliness. We got a game that should be easy to keep score with, except the crowd will now have to bust out the calculators to figure out what that actually means for their teams rankings. The W/L/T formula is what all sports fans are familiar with, and is much more viewer friendly.

[Matthew2c4u]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Seeing as the game is less than 12 hours old, I'm not really going to criticize much of the game until it has digested further. And my initial reaction is rather positive to this game, seems like it has a lot of potential.

The one qualm I shall raise is with the new ranking system. While I will reserve judgment as to how it will impact the tournament and rankings, it seems to conflict with the increased emphasis on similarities to sports and viewer friendliness. We got a game that should be easy to keep score with, except the crowd will now have to bust out the calculators to figure out what that actually means for their teams rankings. The W/L/T formula is what all sports fans are familiar with, and is much more viewer friendly.

I agree. It will be hard for some viewers to understand how a team that scored 0 points got as much seeding score as the other team.

[Joe Johnson]

Lots to like (imho)

• Easily the most causal viewer friendly game we've had in years (perhaps ever).
• Can explain the game to Grandma in 10 seconds
• Favors scoring
• No descoring
• 2 places to score and only 1 robot to defend
• No messing if they tip over
• No messing with robots when trying to elevate or suspend
• should be many exciting finishes

Of course, there are things that I am less happy about (may degrade into a penalty fest if teams are stupid) but nothing I can see that is a deal breaker.

I suspect that by the end of the season it will be considered one of the best games FIRST has had in the 1st 20 years.

Joe J.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

Lots to like (imho)

• Easily the most causal viewer friendly game we've had in years (perhaps ever).
• Can explain the game to Grandma in 10 seconds
• Favors scoring
• No descoring
• 2 places to score and only 1 robot to defend
• No messing if they tip over
• No messing with robots when trying to elevate or suspend
• should be many exciting finishes

Of course, there are things that I am less happy about (may degrade into a penalty fest if teams are stupid) but nothing I can see that is a deal breaker.

I suspect that by the end of the season it will be considered one of the best games FIRST has had in the 1st 20 years.

Joe J.

Unfortunately alot of teams like to take the stupid route instead instead of actually reading the rules and using strategy.

[Tetraman]

I usually hate FIRST games right off the bat, to this I will be honest. (go back to all my treads and see the kind of gripes I've made) And yes, I had a bunch of problems with this game once I saw it.

However, after talking about it with a few people and reading over some of the very complicated rules, I am rapidly warming up to this game. I really like it. And the thing I love the most: Scores are in increments of 1. It's about time we get simple scoring methods in these games.

And really, the things I dislike this year, are rather petty. I can claim that there won't be much innovation done as all robots effectively need to be are boxes, but I thought of a few interesting ideas once I put those thoughts aside.

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

I suspect that by the end of the season it will be considered one of the best games FIRST has had in the 1st 20 years.

I'm going to have to agree. This game has the potential to be as exciting as Aim High.

[GGCO]

Definitely spectator friendly. It's going to be intense when robots fight for balls in the middle, and when robots try to block other bots.

And I'm looking forward to seeing robots that steal balls from other robots. Almost like Lunacy, that was crazy fun. This time, spectators will actually be able to understand it.

I don't know if there is much of an advantage to climb the tower though...

[Radical Pi]

Originally Posted by GGCO

I don't know if there is much of an advantage to climb the tower though...

If you get a bot hanging off another bot, that's 5 points. A 3rd one hanging on the 1st brings it to 8 points. Considering each penalty is only 1 point, 8 points must make a huge difference

[Cyberphil]

Originally Posted by Radical Pi

If you get a bot hanging off another bot, that's 5 points. A 3rd one hanging on the 1st brings it to 8 points. Considering each penalty is only 1 point, 8 points must make a huge difference

But think about that. The top robot has to hold all three robots up. That's 360lbs. Quite a bit of weight!

[DanDon]

Originally Posted by Cyberphil

But think about that. The top robot has to hold all three robots up. That's 360lbs. Quite a bit of weight!

Phil....the way I see it, it's more like a max of 450 rather than 360 (120*3 [robot] + 15*13 [bumpers] + 15*3 [battery]).

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by DanDon

Phil....the way I see it, it's more like a max of 450 rather than 360 (120*3 [robot] + 15*13 [bumpers] + 15*3 [battery]).

What if one robot sits on the palfrom while the other two sit on top of it? Will that be 2 or 3 points for each bot?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

What if one robot sits on the palfrom while the other two sit on top of it? Will that be 2 or 3 points for each bot?

Assuming no tower contact by the 2 on top, 8 points (2 for the one on the platform, 3 each for the other two), according to <G04-B> and the definition of suspended.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by EricH

Assuming no tower contact by the 2 on top, 8 points (2 for the one on the platform, 3 each for the other two), according to <G04-B> and the definition of suspended.

That sounds like the way to go then because I can't see anyone designing an arm strong enough to support three robots.
But I'm not an engineer so I am sure I will be proven wrong.

[GGCO]

Hate the seeding point rules. If my alliance plasters the other alliance, then we're punished??? So basically, my alliance will have to allow the other alliance to score points on us?

This really doesn't make much sense to me, someone please tell me I'm reading this wrong!

P.S. I understand Gracious Professionalism and that "robots are just the vehicle", but this rule does no one any favors. (at least the way I understand it).

[SteveGPage]

Originally Posted by GGCO

Hate the seeding point rules. If my alliance plasters the other alliance, then we're punished??? So basically, my alliance will have to allow the other alliance to score points on us?

This really doesn't make much sense to me, someone please tell me I'm reading this wrong!

No, I think you are "reading" it correct, but I don't think it is a punishment - but you will basically give the other alliance that you plastered almost as many seeding points as you got. Certainly doesn't do much to advance your team/alliance in the standings.

But here is where I think you are mis-reading it....

Actually, let me encourage you to head over to this tread for a discussion on the "game theory" that it generates.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=79708

Best regards,

Steve

[AcesJames]

All in all I think I like Breakaway so far. The fact that there are only 12 balls, and that recycling them back to the field takes a while makes me think that this game may rely heavily upon an alliance's effort to block the other team from scoring, rather than racking up a ton of points. If you stop the opposing alliance from scoring, you stop balls from being returned to them, and eventually they will lose control of the balls all together. An excellent strategy would be to sit in the middle zone and try to control the other alliance's balls as they return to play.

Also, the use of the bumps and the return of the pullup bar are going to be a key player in how robots are made. Although, I have a feeling that a lot of teams will choose to build robots that transcend the bumps, rather than traveling through their underpasses. A well built robot will be able to handle the bumps fairly easily, and the ability to have a taller robot will pay off if a team wants to hang from the pullup bar in the finale. This could very easily be the deciding factor in who wins a match, because the scoring will be so low.

Long story short: I like this game because it relies heavily upon strategy, rather than shear scoring potential, and I cant wait to see what kinds of designs teams come up with.