Breakaway Discussion

[mathking]

But you have to get the balls from the middle to the goal or back to your robot(s) near the goal to score. The ball return is going to drop them in the middle.

[Eagle981]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

I don't think that the game will be played that much in the middle.

Looking further at the restraints of the balls, meaning they can only enter 3" into your robot frame, they can't leave the ground, you can't leave the robot frame except for a couple of seconds to extend into the bumper frame. I don't see many robots with the ability to consistently score from the middle. I think the more successful machines will be making accurate, and quick goals from the closest area.

This sounds logical to me but then again with the existence of the "bumps" that short throw of an extension could lead to some ball air time . I'm glad that there are quite a few dimensions to the game that allow a greater engineering diversity for all levels of experience to excel in certain areas as well as the game field itself being less planar than the past couple years.

[DiehardCybercard]

I think this year's game is amazing. This game requires an intense planning of robot design. Not only that it requires adaptability which is not a necessary an item needed in previous games. It seems this year's game will rely heavily on alliance communication and strategy. It seems every year FIRST has tried to implement more and more team work into the game. This year seems like a year for significant stratagy. Im excited to see the robots, but more so how teams cooperate.

[pandamonium]

I have a serious question. Can you heard multiple balls? The obvious answer is no because you can only posses one ball at a time. BUT a ball is in possession "if, as the ROBOT moves or changes orientation (e.g. backs up or spins in place), the ball remains in approximately the same position relative to the robot." 7.2 DEFINITIONS

so I think that you can push kinda like dribble / run into multiple balls because they do not remain in the same position relative to the robot. This would perhaps make a plow a viable mechanism? When a plow backs up and spins in place balls do not stay in the same position.

[Tetraman]

I can't seem to "break away" my interest.

(bad pun)

I think it's great. I agree its a disappointment we can't really strech robot arms out this year or do some really crazy stuff, but it's a challenge nonetheless and I can't wait for teams to start posting their work around weeks 5-6. It will be great to see the kind of innovation you can make with such limitations and rules. It's got the headaches of Overdrive with the excitement of Aim High. A perfect FIRST combonation!

[dodar]

Ok, now when the rules say that you can extend into Finale Dimensions during the match as long as you are in contact with the tower, does the platform be considered as part of the tower?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dodar

Ok, now when the rules say that you can extend into Finale Dimensions during the match as long as you are in contact with the tower, does the platform be considered as part of the tower?

Considering the fact that the platform is included under the tower section of Section 6, that is a reasonable assumption. A quick check via Q&A would probably be in order, though.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by mathking

Qualification in seeding is not based on wins and losses, but on total seeding points. But in the elimination matches advancement is purely from winning. Which will make for an interesting change in game strategy going from qualification to elimination. There is much less incentive to play defense in qualification, since you want high scores. (For example, if you win 3 - 2 you get 7 seeding points. If you lose 13 - 12, you get 13 seeding points. And your opponents get 37 seeding points.) Then in elimination 1-0 is as good as 23 - 22.

This is one other thing that confused me too, does that mean that if you win that you actual receive less seeding points and therefore a lower rank then the alliance that just lost?

[Radical Pi]

Originally Posted by dodar

This is one other thing that confused me too, does that mean that if you win that you actual receive less seeding points and therefore a lower rank then the alliance that just lost?

I think the seeding system is trying to penalize the team that gets penalties. Look at it closely:

Originally Posted by Rules 9.3.4

All teams on the winning ALLIANCE will receive a number of seeding points equal to the penalized score (the score with any assessed penalties) of the winning ALLIANCE.

All teams on the losing ALLIANCE will receive a number of seeding points equal to un-penalized score (the score without any assessed penalties) of the winning ALLIANCE.

Note the bold text. If you win, you can either get the same or less points as the other team, depending on if you got penalties.

I also don't really get the Coopertition bonus. Is the only use of it just for seeding tiebreakers?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Radical Pi

I also don't really get the Coopertition bonus. Is the only use of it just for seeding tiebreakers?

No. 9.3.7 makes it clear that all seeding points are counted (and the Coopertition bonus is in seeding points).

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Radical Pi

I think the seeding system is trying to penalize the team that gets penalties. Look at it closely:



Note the bold text. If you win, you can either get the same or less points as the other team, depending on if you got penalties.

I also don't really get the Coopertition bonus. Is the only use of it just for seeding tiebreakers?

Exactly, so if say A1 scores 10 points with a 2 point penalty and A2 scores 2 points. A1 then gets a seeding score of 8 whereas A2 gets 10 points

So the losing alliance, A2, gets the higher seeding rank

[Radical Pi]

Originally Posted by EricH

No. 9.3.7 makes it clear that all seeding points are counted (and the Coopertition bonus is in seeding points).

Ah. 9.3.9 had me confused since it talked about coopertition bonus as a separate thing from seeding points

[dodar]

Ok ya I just re-read the rules for scoring and rankings and to me it seems like that a team that wins every match will get a lower ranking than a team that will lose every match.

Like a team that has just a base could end up being ranked #1 and a team that can score like 10 goals and boost a team onto the ramp then can pull themselves onto the bar could get last place, that to me doesnt make me wanna really build a super amazing robot, trust me I will want to but to me it seems that rookie teams will take it as they dont have to be super inventive to get a picking position

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by dodar

Exactly, so if say A1 scores 10 points with a 2 point penalty and A2 scores 2 points. A1 then gets a seeding score of 8 whereas A2 gets 10 points

So the losing alliance, A2, gets the higher seeding rank

But A1 gets a coopertition bonus of 4 (2*A2 score), bringing their total seeding points to 12.

[dodar]

How me and my mother read it, Co-op points dont come into account unless 2or more teams' seeding rankings are tied