Breakaway Discussion

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dodar

How me and my mother read it, Co-op points dont come into account unless 2or more teams' seeding rankings are tied

Coopertition points are seeding points, according to 9.3.5, first sentence. 9.3.7 makes it clear that all seeding points are counted in the seeding score.

Then you get the rankings using:
Seeding score
Highest coopertition bonus
Hanging points
Electronic coin toss.

[dodar]

exactly so in the order that 9.3.7 states than a losing team can rank higher than a winning team

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dodar

exactly so in the order that 9.3.7 states than a losing team can rank higher than a winning team

No, they can't.

9.3.7 Seeding Score
The total number of seeding points earned by a TEAM throughout their qualification matches will be their seeding score.

9.3.5 Coopertition™ Bonus
All teams on the winning ALLIANCE will receive a coopertition bonus: a number of seeding points equal to twice the un-penalized score (the score without any assessed penalties) of the losing ALLIANCE.
In the case of a tie, all participating teams will receive a coopertition bonus of a number of seeding points equal to twice their ALLIANCE score (with any assessed penalties).

In other words, the Coopertition bonus == seeding points. Seeding points == position, then the highest bonus splits any ties.

[dodar]

but its not a tie though so its like, Red scores 10 but gets a 2 point penalty so they get 8 seeding points, Blue scores 2 points 0 penalty so they get 10 seeding points, so until their next match Blue is ranked ahead of Red

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dodar

but its not a tie though so its like, Red scores 10 but gets a 2 point penalty so they get 8 seeding points, Blue scores 2 points 0 penalty so they get 10 seeding points, so until their next match Blue is ranked ahead of Red

Coopertition == seeding. All seeding points go into the seeding score. The seeding score determines ranking. Therefore, in the above, this is what actually happens:

Red gets 8+2*2=12, Blue gets 10. Until the next match, Red has 2 more seeding points and the Coopertition bonus tiebreaker over Blue.

[dodar]

the rules say it as Co-op only being used in the circumsyance of a tie

[EricH]

Read Section 9.3.5. Especially the words that I bolded when I quoted it a couple of posts ago. The Coop bonus is in seeding points. Can I make it any more clear?

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by dodar

the rules say it as Co-op only being used in the circumsyance of a tie

Sorry, you're incorrect.

9.3.5 Coopertition™ Bonus
All teams on the winning ALLIANCE will receive a coopertition bonus: a number of seeding points equal to twice the un-penalized score (the score without any assessed penalties) of the losing ALLIANCE.
In the case of a tie, all participating teams will receive a coopertition bonus of a number of seeding points equal to twice their ALLIANCE score (with any assessed penalties).

(emphasis mine)

The bonus is seeding points.

In addition, the bonus is used for tiebreaking, but that is not the only use.

[dodar]

they said that the seeding points and the Co-op points will be kept separately unless needed to undo a tie

[GGCO]

Disregard that post. I goofed up. Sorry.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dodar

they said that the seeding points and the Co-op points will be kept separately unless needed to undo a tie

I don't care what "they" said or where "they" said it (or who "they" is specifically for that matter). Unless it is in the Manual, it is not official. The Manual explicitly states that Co-op points are seeding points, and that all seeding points go into your seeding score. Highest Co-op bonus is tracked but not displayed, and is the first tiebreaker. Note that it's the highest one, not the sum of them.

And you're reversed on the Co-op bonus makeup. It's not that the bonus is based on your seeding points, it's that the bonus is extra seeding points.

[dodar]

Ok im not trying to sound defiant or saying that you guys arent wrong and I am right, I am just trying to figure it out but it never says that Co-op are seeding points

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by dodar

Yes I understand that but its not saying that those are seeding points, they are USING seeding points to make the Co-op points

No, they are adding to your seeding point total. The bonus is not using seeding points, it is using unpenalized scores. Seeding points are penalized scores.

[dodar]

Ok my bad guys, my Dad just came in here and described how the rules are saying that rule and I now understand it, sorry for the confusion

[Drivencrazy]

"9.3.4 Match Seeding Points
All teams on the winning ALLIANCE will receive a number of seeding points equal to the penalized score (the score with any assessed penalties) of the winning ALLIANCE.

All teams on the losing ALLIANCE will receive a number of seeding points equal to un-penalized score (the score without any assessed penalties) of the winning ALLIANCE.

9.3.5 Coopertition™ Bonus
All teams on the winning ALLIANCE will receive a coopertition bonus: a number of seeding points equal to twice the un-penalized score (the score without any assessed penalties) of the losing ALLIANCE."

If I am reading this correctly this means that the formula for the winning team A is S=P+2L

Where S is the seeding score; P is the penalized score of the winning team, and L is the un-penalized score of the losing team.

So say the Red Alliance wins over the Blue Alliance 15-0 but incurred 3 penalties.

The Red seeding score would be 15 and the Blue seeding score would be 18.

Is this correct? Am I missing something? If not I believe this to be the only downfall of this game.