<G39> Pinning

[kirtar]

<G39> Pinning - A ROBOT may not pin (inhibit the movement of another ROBOT that is in contact with a field element, border, or goal) for more than 5 seconds. If a ROBOT has been pinned for 5 seconds, the team with the pinning ROBOT will be signaled by a referee to release the pinned ROBOT and back away approximately 6 feet. Once the pinning ROBOT has backed off by 6 feet for 3 seconds, it may again attempt to pin its opponent, and if successful, the 5 second count will start over. Violation: One PENALTY for each violation

First, I take it that the 5 second timer resets only when you back away for three seconds, regardless of how long you pinned the opposing robot. Second, if the robot is not touching a field element (I'm guessing floor excluded), it's not pinning, so you can push for as long as you want in that situatioin.

Also, if you are able to pin a robot indefinitely (e.g. tank pinning a killough drive in a corner), would you get only one penalty for this as long as they did not escape, or will you get one for every five seconds that you pin them for (kinda a stretch, but I can see someone using that interpretation)?

[Big Kid]

i think by my interpretation I think the timer resets after every penalty so if you pin a robot get a penalty and then continue to pin for another 5 seconds it will be another penalty.

[BrendanB]

Once you pin someone to the point where they are not moving, the timer starts when their movement is hindered. You back off to 6 feet and 3 seconds later you can go back to pinning.

This video might help you out- http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv.../2007cmp_sf2m2 Second 1:49 is when 910 starts pining 233.

[Barry Bonzack]

the definition of pinning is interpretted as the pinned robot is unable to travel anywhere. If there is just a pushing match at midfield, either robot can simply back up and go somewhere else.

The "each violation" is meant to imply that a penalty will be given every 5 seconds.

[GaryVoshol]

Is pinning against a 45* ramp, that your robot can't climb due to design constraints, really pinning?

[engunneer]

yes, that's pinning. The ramp is a field element.

[kirtar]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Is pinning against a 45* ramp, that your robot can't climb due to design constraints, really pinning?

If it's because of design constraints, you're probably not actually inhibiting the motion of the robot as it probably couldn't move on its own anyways (in fact, you might even be helping them get unstuck). However, the refs might not notice this and give you a penalty anyways since it's not possible to notice every single detail of a match.

Or are you saying that you're pushing them into the ramp and that they're not on the ramp?

As an addition, "each violation" can also be interpreted to only apply for each time you pin for more than 5 seconds.

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by Barry Bonzack

The "each violation" is meant to imply that a penalty will be given every 5 seconds.

But the rule does not say that, so we don't know what the GDC is implying.

<G39> Pinning - A ROBOT may not pin (inhibit the movement of another ROBOT that is in contact with a field element, border, or goal) for more than 5 seconds. If a ROBOT has been pinned for 5 seconds, the team with the pinning ROBOT will be signaled by a referee to release the pinned ROBOT and back away approximately 6 feet. Once the pinning ROBOT has backed off by 6 feet for 3 seconds, it may again attempt to pin its opponent, and if successful, the 5 second count will start over. Violation: One PENALTY for each violation

I think this is a clarification question for the Q&A.

[karatekid]

If your really this determined to pin other robots (though this is not gracious proffesionalism), you can have two robots from the same team pin two opposing robots for five seconds, then switch indefinately.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by karatekid

If your really this determined to pin other robots (though this is not gracious proffesionalism), you can have two robots from the same team pin two opposing robots for five seconds, then switch indefinately.

But to switch, you'd have to back away. Unless what you mean is to make a robot sandwich, say 2 blue robots trap a red one between them, in which case there are no rules governing how long you can do that. Though a 2V1 situation isn't the best one to find yourself in... and you're on the receiving end as well as the giving end!

[karatekid]

Originally Posted by EricH

But to switch, you'd have to back away. Unless what you mean is to make a robot sandwich, say 2 blue robots trap a red one between them, in which case there are no rules governing how long you can do that. Though a 2V1 situation isn't the best one to find yourself in... and you're on the receiving end as well as the giving end!

yes, you back away but then immediately can go pin the other robot.

[Rion Atkinson]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

But the rule does not say that, so we don't know what the GDC is implying.

The rule states the PINNING means to keep the robot from moving for more than 5 seconds. If you do that. Then you are pinning. Thus violating the rules. If you let go. Let them move, then pin again. the timer starts over.

Knowing that, you can imply that if you pin for 4 seconds, then back off and let them move for a moment, then pin again. You have not violated the rules.

That being said, that is not what they mean. That is what the rules say, but the intention is to say "Don't pin. It isn't kind. It takes away from the fun of the game.

-Rion

[Jack Jones]

Is pinning against a 45* ramp, that your robot can't climb due to design constraints, really pinning?

Originally Posted by engunneer

yes, that's pinning. The ramp is a field element.

I say NO pin. I even though the ramp may be a field element, the robot has an avenue of escape - up the ramp. Therefore the robot is NOT pinned.

[draconar]

Pinning against the bumps (ramps, whatever) is probably going to depend on the referees' discretion. If the pinned robot has a tank drivetrain and the treads are parallel to the ramp and it can't move, then it's probably pinning. If the treads can go up the ramp but the team just wants to go the other direction, it wouldn't be.
As somebody said above, pinning only happens when a robot can't move anywhere. Otherwise it's just blocking.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

I say NO pin. I even though the ramp may be a field element, the robot has an avenue of escape - up the ramp. Therefore the robot is NOT pinned.

Pinning is defined as inhibiting the movement of another robot that is in contact with a field element, border, or goal. The bumps are a field element. Yes, there is an avenue of escape. No, the rules don't say, "except for against the bumps". Therefore, the robot is pinned, because it is in contact with a field element.

Now, you could easily argue the other way. So, here's a question for someone who can post on Q&A to post when it opens: "Under <G39>, pinning is defined as inhibiting the movement of another robot that is in contact with a field element, border, or goal. If a robot is trapped against a BUMP by another robot, it has an escape route (over the BUMP). Is this still pinning?"