Rule <G30> a ...(Logic help)

[Kage]

Okay...rule <G30> a.

Originally Posted by Rule <G30> a

BALL interaction volume - Solely for the purpose of interacting with a BALL, MECHANISMS that are below the BUMPER ZONE may extend up to the BUMPER PERIMETER, for a period not exceeding 2 seconds. After returning inside the FRAME PERIMETER, such MECHANISMS are not permitted to re-extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for at least 2 seconds.

Mechanisms...so, if you had a whole kicker that was composed of lots of pieces that some of them were ABOVE the bumper zone...would it not be able to extend beyond the frame perimeter?

Or maybe it is trying to say that it can only extend beyond the frame perimeter UNDER the bumper zone...?

I am brainstorming, and I came upon this rule, and it started to worry me. I know there is probably no definitive answer to this, but hopefully there will be some clarity soon enough.
Your ideas are welcome... What do you think it means?

[Phoenix Spud]

I don't know on this one. I think that the part of the mechanism that extends has to be under the zone. But, you do raise a good point, I think it might be time for a Q&A to FIRST. I don't think this is what the GDC intended, but I am not sure. I would imagine this rule was designed to encourage kickers, however it maybe for some other purpose, or just worded in a way that has unwanted intentions. Any one else have ideas?

[Locke64]

I think this is a case in which one has to read the intention behind the rules. The important thing this rule is stressing is that no mechanisms should extend above the bumper zone.
Though the following aren't as definitive as the manual, I think they do show the intent:
-The 'kicker' demonstration at kickoff was very tall, well above the bumper area, though it only extended beyond the frame perimiter below the area.
-One of the robots in the animation had a very similar design to this demonstration.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Kage

Mechanisms...so, if you had a whole kicker that was composed of lots of pieces that some of them were ABOVE the bumper zone...would it not be able to extend beyond the frame perimeter?

BALL interaction volume - Solely for the purpose of interacting with a BALL, MECHANISMS that are below the BUMPER ZONE may extend up to the BUMPER PERIMETER, for a period not exceeding 2 seconds. After returning inside the FRAME PERIMETER, such MECHANISMS are not permitted to re-extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for at least 2 seconds.

OK, read the rule again, with a focus on those words I have highlighted - these are not the same thing.

Note <G30> essentially precludes any part of the robot extending beyond the Frame Perimeter....but <G30a> allows for something to stick out from the frame perimeter all the way to the bumper perimeter...for 2 seconds. That doesn't mean ALL parts of the mechanism must be below the bumper perimeter, only the parts of the mechanism that sticks out.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

OK, read the rule again, with a focus on those words I have highlighted - these are not the same thing.

Note <G30> essentially precludes any part of the robot extending beyond the Frame Perimeter....but <G30a> allows for something to stick out from the frame perimeter all the way to the bumper perimeter...for 2 seconds.

Don, the question is: I have a kicking device that has some active parts above the bumper zone. Will I, with this same device, be able to take advantage of <G30-A>?

The answer is, Q&A is probably the best place for this one.

[Xenozero]

As far as i see it, this rule only states that if you had a "leg" that kicks the ball on your robot, that the toes of your "foot" (if they are below the bumper) are allowed to come past the frame up to the outer edge of the bumper for the sole purpose of kicking the ball. this would make sense due to the fact that if you were to kick the ball and not be able to go past the bumper, the robot would have to be really high off the ground. I hope this helps

[V_Chip]

Originally Posted by Kage

Okay...rule <G30> a.


Mechanisms...so, if you had a whole kicker that was composed of lots of pieces that some of them were ABOVE the bumper zone...would it not be able to extend beyond the frame perimeter?

Or maybe it is trying to say that it can only extend beyond the frame perimeter UNDER the bumper zone...?

I am brainstorming, and I came upon this rule, and it started to worry me. I know there is probably no definitive answer to this, but hopefully there will be some clarity soon enough.
Your ideas are welcome... What do you think it means?

I believe this rule was created in order to negate a robot from doing just as stated: extending a mechanism past the bumper perimeter.

Theoried Rationale: it is a force rule; forcing teams to either make a mechanism that stays within the perimeters during gameplay, or a mechanism that quickly surpasses the perimeters and returns behind the framer perimeter within that small window of time of 2 seconds.

I propose the possibility of a pneumatic punch/kick mechanism?

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by EricH

Don, the question is: I have a kicking device that has some active parts above the bumper zone. Will I, with this same device, be able to take advantage of <G30-A>?

If those parts that are above the bumper zone do not extend past the frame perimeter, then you should be ok.

[1075master]

Our team has had some discussion on this for our design.
What we take from it is based both on this rule aswell as the sizing rules.
Your robot is obviously not allowed to extend beyond its frame perimeter until the last 20 seconds(FINALE).
The exception being that something below the bumper zone is allowed to extend past the frame for up to 2 seconds(a air ram, foot, etc).
If your robot had say a sloped top, you could in theory go outside of the frame as long as this item does not extend past the widest part of your robot.
As per the sizing your robot can be well above the bumper area, and it doesn't matter whats in it. If your kicker mechanism takes up the whole size allowed then so be at so long as any part that comes outside the FRAME PERIMETER is below the bumper.

[Kage]

I figured that it would be fine for parts of the mechanism to be above the bumper, I was just seeing what others had to say about it. I continued with my brainstorming and came up with some killer ideas...I can't wait for the first riegional to see what other people do...scratch that, i cant wait to see what WE DO as soon as people start agreeing on things =D

It took us 2 weeks to finalize a design last year, (before we even picked up a tool) i am hoping we can do it a bit faster this year

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Xenozero

As far as i see it, this rule only states that if you had a "leg" that kicks the ball on your robot, that the toes of your "foot" (if they are below the bumper) are allowed to come past the frame up to the outer edge of the bumper for the sole purpose of kicking the ball. this would make sense due to the fact that if you were to kick the ball and not be able to go past the bumper, the robot would have to be really high off the ground. I hope this helps

Right. The question is, if the "shin" of your "leg" went upward such that the "knee" was not below the BUMPER ZONE, could your toe still extend past the FRAME PERIMETER. That's the question Eric (and I) say has to be submitted to Q&A. It is not clear by a reading of the rules.