Effectiveness of Kicking vs. Pushing

[ssa3512]

I had an interesting thought regarding kicking, especially kicking at an angle to clear bumps. The ball is ~9 inches in diameter, and the bumpers extend ~3.5 inches off the frame of the robot starting at 10 inches off the ground. This leaves about one inch of space between the bumper and ball. The bumper extends about 1/3 of the diameter of the ball. This is all well and good, but if you were to add a concave area underneath the bumper to help maintain control of the ball you add an additional 3 inches underneath the bumper. The ball is now 2/3 underneath the bumper and trying to get enough lift under it to clear the bumps may be difficult due to the ball hitting the bumper. What are your thoughts on this?

[Nurnburger]

Your frame perimeter is supposed to be the part that hits the wall first were you to hit a wall without bumpers on. Therefore, I don't think it would be legal to attach anything onto the underside of the bumpers. I don't know the rule number, but there's one that says you can extend past the frame perimeter to the bumper perimeter for two seconds every two seconds. So if you wanted to attach anything that controls the ball that way, it would have to be attached to the frame and then actuate outward.

[ssa3512]

Nurnburger, I don't you understood what I was saying. I was talking about two areas. There is the area between the outside of the bumper and the outside of the frame perimeter (~3.5 inches) and an area inside the frame perimeter (up to 3 inches) for a total of ~6.5 inches of penetration of the ball beneath the bumper.

[Fe_Will]

Originally Posted by ssa3512

Nurnburger, I don't you understood what I was saying. I was talking about two areas. There is the area between the outside of the bumper and the outside of the frame perimeter (~3.5 inches) and an area inside the frame perimeter (up to 3 inches) for a total of ~6.5 inches of penetration of the ball beneath the bumper.

Just to clarify, your concern is that having the ball approximately 6.5" within the bumper perimeter when initiating the "kick" could cause the ball to contact some part of the robot chassis and/or bumper before it has exited the bumper perimeter depending on the angle it is kicked?

It seems to me that this is a serious issue for a team that is trying to achieve long distance shots by means of kicking the ball into the air rather than along the carpet.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Fe_Will

Just to clarify, your concern is that having the ball approximately 6.5" within the bumper perimeter when initiating the "kick" could cause the ball to contact some part of the robot chassis and/or bumper before it has exited the bumper perimeter depending on the angle it is kicked?

It seems to me that this is a serious issue for a team that is trying to achieve long distance shots by means of kicking the ball into the air rather than along the carpet.

My thoughts exactly.
With intial thought, the physics wont allow the ball to catch air over the bump if your bumper is above and in the way of an angled kick.
Perhaps another method of rolling the ball via the carpet over the hump is a possibility.

[Donut]

Having to push balls to score them could be very frustrating, since the balls will need to be pushed up a 6" ramp without rolling off AND your drivers will be unable to see the ball for at least a few feet on approach due to the player station walls. Having to shoot towards yourself to score is going to feel alot different than recent FIRST games.

[karatekid]

Originally Posted by Donut

Having to push balls to score them could be very frustrating, since the balls will need to be pushed up a 6" ramp without rolling off AND your drivers will be unable to see the ball for at least a few feet on approach due to the player station walls. Having to shoot towards yourself to score is going to feel alot different than recent FIRST games.

The drivers won't necessarily be blind-if you have the camera mounted on the robot, you could see from the robot's view (it looks like the camera transmits back to the station this year). However, that said, I think kicking will be more effective, especially in accuracy.

[=Martin=Taylor=]

Originally Posted by waialua359

My thoughts exactly.
With intial thought, the physics wont allow the ball to catch air over the bump if your bumper is above and in the way of an angled kick.
Perhaps another method of rolling the ball via the carpet over the hump is a possibility.

You're forgetting that you can interact with balls for 2 seconds outside the bumper zone.

If you have a kicker, it can leap out of the frame and propel the ball up past the bumpers.

And yes. This does work. We've tried it.

[robself705]

No you can interact with balls for two seconds outside the FRAME PERIMETER and WITHIN THE BUMPER ZONE for two seconds. You can't go outside the bumper perimeter EVER to interact with the balls

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by =Martin=Taylor=

You're forgetting that you can interact with balls for 2 seconds outside the bumper zone.

If you have a kicker, it can leap out of the frame and propel the ball up past the bumpers.

And yes. This does work. We've tried it.

So you're doing this with your kicker NOT passing the bumper perimeter?

[=Martin=Taylor=]

Originally Posted by waialua359

So you're doing this with your kicker NOT passing the bumper perimeter?

Yeah yeah. shoot me. sry

[JB987]

Originally Posted by waialua359

So you're doing this with your kicker NOT passing the bumper perimeter?

Proper configuration of the swing arm insures swing limited to perimeter of the bumper legally, Glenn.

[Taylor]

The "concave area" would have to be part of the bumper itself; the rulebook is pretty clear on how to make the bumpers, and there's not a lot of room for change to make a concave area.

[vivek16]

Yes, the frame perimeter is the plane behind the plywood backing of the bumpers. With the bumpers needing to be in a 10" to 16" range above the ground, you don't really have the bumpers touching the balls.

[KGood]

Keep in mind the danger of the "legal" holding, which is the ball must remain in contact with the floor. If you attempt to go over a bump while holding the ball, it is very likely at one point the ball will leave contact with the floor and you will be penalized.