Staying in Zones

[Bomberofdoom]

INVALUABLE TOPIC! Thank you guys for your ideas!

Speaking of balls as currently available balls in the field, I agree entirly that the center is an important zone after the moment when the first 6 "safe balls" (the 6 balls that in the beginning of the match that are set up by the alliance's decision, and could be said to be "controlled" by their own alliance. These balls have a high probability of getting scored for sure at the first seconds of the match, tele and auto). The fight over the control of the balls will exist. Middle bot will always want to keep a fresh supply of available balls for scoring in the near zone for the Near bot. But if a "battle of control" occurs between the two Middle bots for trying to send the returned balls to thier own alliance's Near bot, Both the Defending (Far) bot and Scroing (Near) bot will be idle for a while, if they maintain thier role the whole time. These robots should have the ability to manuver across the ramps (that includes the option of going through the tunnel), in order to assist the bots in the battle.

This could say something about Middle bots. They will be moving most of thier time only inside thier own zone. So if you would like to have the best Middle bot in your alliance, I personally would chose that bot that could push other robots effectivly, manuver extermly quick and be able to pass balls to the Near/Far zones fast and effectivly.

Battles for control, if are given assistance from the other zone bots, will eventually cieze after a couple of seconds after the arrival of the assisting bots, for the moment a bot posses a ball, or has been able to pass a ball or two to the desired zone, the Scorer bot should return to score.


Wow, this is getting much more specific....

But I think FIRST finally did it. We finally have a game where teamwork and coordination between the teams in the alliance is PARAMOUNT for any kind of victory in the game. I like that....

[Passion]

This game is expected to be played out very similar to a soccer match. Each robot has a unique role. If you are at far end zone, you HAVE TO play at least some sort of defense and passing the ball to the midfielder.
Let me put it this way, how would you not be tempted to block the opponent from scoring when you are right beside their goal post?!

A defensive robot should be able to catch the opponent's soccer ball, and output it to the midfielder.

There are two goal posts, if you are the only one playing defense on your team, that means only ONE goal post will be covered, and leading another goal post open to be scored.

A very effective defense strategy is building a robot that is efficient at controlling the movement of the ball and outputting/passing it. Reason being is that the defensive robot should go to midfield where the soccer balls are dropped. If your robot collects the balls faster and passes them to teammates to score faster than the opponents do, where would the opponent bots get the soccer balls to score?!

The best way to defend is to take away the opponent's scoring balls!

[Jonanin]

I think that many of you guys that are talking about how it's important to support less effective/broken robots and the like are forgetting that the alliance gets to choose where the robots start. The fact that the alliance gets to plan ahead removes a lot of those problems, at least in my opinion

Obviously, there will be some situations in which moving to another zone is advantageous. However, does this REALLY outweigh the added complexity of designing a really short robot or a robot which can successfully navigate over the bumps? Not doing this allows you to REALLY focus on your robot's strengths, such as a very amazing kicker.

[Sammy G]

Has anyone considered the importance of the end of the game? To even attempt to get points for suspending and lifting robots. The bot placed in the far side would have to be able to travel over the bumps.

Or is the ablilty to climb up not considered as important this year? It seems to me that the end game will be important to deciding the winning alliance. Maybe I am underestimating the ability of the offensive robots to score.

[EricH]

My take is that no matter where you are at the start, or where you plan to stay, you should have the ability to change zones due to the well-known fact that plans change suddenly when you have opponents. How you change zones is up to you.

[Kims Robot]

I'm not certain why you would want to play defense in this game at all (at least in qualifiers). My thought was move the middle robot to the front zone (two scorers) and the far robot to the middle zone (ball handler), and then all three are in position to score huge points and hang. This will produce the highest match scores and seeding scores. In my opinion its dangerous (potential penalty) and a waste of time to try and get the balls from the far field to the near field...

If another alliance does this and tries to score, you can only have 1 defender for two scorers with two goals... In hearing what one of the GDC guys had to say, I think this is what the expect to happen... and is ultimately the "smart move" for seeding points.

[GGCO]

I think that the fight will be in the middle. It's up to you to "Breakaway" and score.

[Passion]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

I'm not certain why you would want to play defense in this game at all (at least in qualifiers). My thought was move the middle robot to the front zone (two scorers) and the far robot to the middle zone (ball handler), and then all three are in position to score huge points and hang. This will produce the highest match scores and seeding scores. In my opinion its dangerous (potential penalty) and a waste of time to try and get the balls from the far field to the near field...

If another alliance does this and tries to score, you can only have 1 defender for two scorers with two goals... In hearing what one of the GDC guys had to say, I think this is what the expect to happen... and is ultimately the "smart move" for seeding points.

In your particular scenario, the defensive robot would have to go to the midfield where soccer balls are being dropped after being scored from both teams. The robot would have to stay in that position right after where the balls are dropped, and then try to take away as many soccer balls before the opponent can get it as possible to minimize the chance of the opponent bots getting the soccer balls.

How would the opponents score if they are unable to get a soccer ball? My point is to take away their source of soccer ball.

[=Martin=Taylor=]

Originally Posted by Jonanin

I've been thinking about game strategy for quite a while now, and I am becoming increasingly convinced that it will be useless and possibly even detrimental for robots to move away into different zones than their starting ones. It just doesn't seem like it's worth all the extra trouble. As such, it seems as though being able to effectively pass will be a big one.

All three zones are equally important in my eyes. The one closest to the goal is for scoring easily, the one in the middle is for retrieving and passing forward scored balls that return, and the far zone is for stealing balls and passing forward the opponents missed/stray balls. Since all of these zones require attention, what's the point of leaving one? You are just creating a disadvantage for yourself as you are lettings your opponents robots have free reign over a zone. I think the balls will be relatively equally spread out between zones, despite the fact that they only return to the middle. After all, the goals aren't in the middle are they? Why would the balls be concentrated there of all places?

Is anyone else thinking some of the same things as me?

Yes, that is a great strategy and will probably win several (if not many) regionals.

But what about qualifications? If you're the only bot on your alliance with ball handling skills you will be needed in all three zones.

You may even need to move balls from the middle to your side and then score them yourself. A slow painful strategy... but it may be your only option.

[goldenglove002]

Originally Posted by scottydoh

I agree completely, except im out numbered 20 to 1 at our design meetings. Im trying to convince my team that crossing the border should only be used as a last resort in extreme situations. I feel its just to dangerous and will take far to long for the little assistance it might provide.

Same situation and I agree completely. Best to stay in one zone except for maybe one robot to move between it's alliances zone and midfield. But the other two shouldn't need to be worrying as much about it.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by =Martin=Taylor=

Yes, that is a great strategy and will probably win several (if not many) regionals.

But what about qualifications? If you're the only bot on your alliance with ball handling skills you will be needed in all three zones.

You may even need to move balls from the middle to your side and then score them yourself. A slow painful strategy... but it may be your only option.

Granted, that quals may be a little tough. But this is always the case. It doesn't make sense for most teams to decide they need to do EVERYTHING on the field because they might get some bad seeding matchups. Teams should consider the importance of doing everything vs the likelihood they'll be able to do everything.

[jesse.elite]

The ideal robot here would be one that can do one task really well (shooting, blocking, passing, etc.) but also be able to have flexibility. But the specialty part is important. However, I can foresee robots changing zones only when they need to help an ally flip over. If aliances do their jobs right, there won't be a need to change zones to get balls.

[Chris is me]

For what it's worth, depending on how wrong I am on strategy... if it were up to me, I would personally not pick more than one partner completely incapable of moving between zones, and only one in an exceptional case. Guess good thing it's not.

[joeweber]

Where is the most points? Three robots spending 15-20 seconds hanging off each other and the rack or spend the time socring more balls from the zones they are in.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by joeweber

Where is the most points? Three robots spending 15-20 seconds hanging off each other and the rack or spend the time socring more balls from the zones they are in.

If you can score 2/3rds of the balls in the entire game in 20 seconds, be my guest.