End Game Scoring Rules

[Locke64]

I'm pretty sure sitting on the platform counts as being above the plane. A plane has no depth so you can't be in the plane, and you certainly cannot be below it, so you must be above. Plus they demonstrated this with two robots in the animation, so it seems that this was intended.

[dodar]

No cause remember the animation clearly counted the robot on the platform as counting above the plane, the plane is being on or above the platform; otherwise, why would they count being on the platform as 2 points in the manual?

[GoSparx]

Originally Posted by dodar

No cause remember the animation clearly counted the robot on the platform as counting above the plane, the plane is being on or above the platform; otherwise, why would they count being on the platform as 2 points in the manual?

As we have seen in years past, the only rule interpretation is the game manual with its updates. The game animation and the demonstration with Deab, Woody and Dave are NOT the rules. There may be a slip up. I do agree though we need some clearer interpretation.

[hschase]

My idea on this is that they say the robot needs to be completely above the plane of the platform, but if your robot is sitting on the platform it is at the plane not completely above it.....

We will see what FIRST Says when they open the forum board.

[dodar]

No what I meant was that the manual even states that if a robot is on the platform then they receive 2 points

[GoSparx]

Originally Posted by dodar

No what I meant was that the manual even states that if a robot is on the platform then they receive 2 points

Where does it say this? Under Scoring 7.3.3 of the game manual, I see 3 ways to score.

1. Score balls in goals = 1 point
2. Elevated Robot = 2 points
3. Suspended Robot = 3 points

I am still under the assumption that elevated means above the platform (ie not touching it). No where does it say if a robot is on the platform, then it gets points.

[dodar]

ELEVATED: A ROBOT that is completely above the plane of the PLATFORM and in contact with the TOWER shall be considered ELEVATED.

if you are on TOP of the platform you are therefore over the plane of the platform

[CrazyCarl461]

Originally Posted by dodar

if you are on TOP of the platform you are therefore over the plane of the platform

I agree with this interpretation and I think you will find that this is what the GDC intended. A plane is a feature with zero thickness. The only way to not be above it is to either be below it or intersecting it. Since the plane is exactly lined up with the surface of the platform, the only way to intersect it would be to intersect the plastic itself.

[GoSparx]

Originally Posted by CrazyCarl461

I agree with this interpretation and I think you will find that this is what the GDC intended. A plane is a feature with zero thickness. The only way to not be above it is to either be below it or intersecting it. Since the plane is exactly lined up with the surface of the platform, the only way to intersect it would be to intersect the plastic itself.

I do find it a little odd that they would design a field with a platform that has no purpose for scoring what so ever. I would, however like to see a clarification on this topic. I would just hate to design a robot feature (like be able to climb on to the platform) that could not be used due to a rule.

[CrazyCarl461]

People that are here looking for an absolute clarification obviously know they won't be able to get it here. Luckily it is still early in the season so you should feel free to toss around platform bot ideas without worrying about too much of a commitment. The GDC is going to rule that being on the platform is also being above it (unless they were bad at geometry in high school), but.. don't take my word for it - ask. You will know for sure very soon and will already have your snazzy designs ready

[engunneer]

I think the GDC intended for a 'platform sitter' to be counted as elevated. IT's no small task. The Q&A will confirm this in a few days.

For those bringing up the animation, they also showed a robot retreating into the tunnel at the endgame, but that isn't worth anything (Though it would be cool if that was a 1 point bonus, as long as you are completely inside, which isn't possible for a full 28x38 robot)

[TomH]

Expect that in any case this is going to be something of importance (as in that it will be reworded or redefined) because it is generally confusing of what it means. A plane is something with no thickness so if something is in contact with the top of the plane, it is above the plane in theory. This topic is a hot one, and expect that either it has by now have a more defined reasoning or that it is more along the lines of going towards the idea that being on the platform is a way to score. It may just be that you have to be in contact with one of the steel columns to be counted as elevated.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by dodar

ELEVATED: A ROBOT that is completely above the plane of the PLATFORM and in contact with the TOWER shall be considered ELEVATED.

if you are on TOP of the platform you are therefore over the plane of the platform

While I believe this is the way that the GDC will interpret this, They could determine that 'ON' is not 'above' the plane.

We'll just have to wait 'til tomorrow.

[hotapay42]

hey guess what?

at an atomic level, the atoms/molecules of rubber/plastic/whatever repel each other, so as to not fuse and combine with whatever they touch

therefore, it IS above the platform, so you should calm down about it and get on with your robot

p.s. this goes for all molecules; body parts too: i typed all of this without actually touching the keyboard. ponder that!

[rsegrest]

Ok, not about elevating but is about end game scoring and before you say 'look in the manual' we already have...four times...so here's the question (which I have also posted at the FIRST forums)...

In the animation Dave says that during the final 20 seconds the robots..."will move toward their platform"...and in the animation the bots ALL move to their platforms, in the game manual the only reference to scoring in the final 20 seconds is regarding elevation of the bots...SO

Can bots score goals with the balls during the final 20 seconds of the game?